Title IX Independent Investigation

[houtiger]

23 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

let me know when you have a quote that came out of someone other than Williams’ mouth. 

Let me know when you have a plausible explanation for why Gloria brought Williams into a discussion that was as simple as:

1. We're not going to suspend Guice for the game

2. Guice will give you a personal apology

3. That is it, end of discussion.

And when Williams enters the discussion, it immediately turns to money.

[Nutriaitch]

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Let me know when you have a plausible explanation for why Gloria brought Williams into a discussion that was as simple as:

1. We're not going to suspend Guice for the game

2. Guice will give you a personal apology

3. That is it, end of discussion.

i did. 

several posts ago. 

she point blank said she felt LSU was ignoring her. 

so she sought help. 

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

And when Williams enters the discussion, it immediately turns to money.

imagine that.  

this sentence supports my argument more than yours. 

thanks. 

Only when this bloviator gets involved is money ever even mentioned.  What a coincidence. 

[dachsie]

And a second federal investigation is opened

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/04/06/lsu-faces-second-federal-investigation-sexual-misconduct-handling/7114703002/?utm_source=thescoreapp

[Nutriaitch]

this is not going to end well

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

Only when this bloviator gets involved is money ever even mentioned.  What a coincidence. 

And one and only one person inserted Williams (and her grandson) into the discussion, Gloria Scott.  No coincidence at all.  Gloria was then threatening LSU to go to the media and to file charges against Guice, neither of which she did.  The threats were only useful to put pressure on LSU to pay up.  You want evidence of that?  When LSU did not suspend Guice, nor did they pay up, Scott DID NOTHING.  

Edited April 7, 2021 by houtiger

[Nutriaitch]

19 minutes ago, houtiger said:

And one and only one person inserted Williams (and her grandson) into the discussion, Gloria Scott.  No coincidence at all.  Gloria was then threatening LSU to go to the media and to file charges against Guice, neither of which she did.  The threats were only useful to put pressure on LSU to pay up.  You want evidence of that?  When LSU did not suspend Guice, nor did they pay up, Scott DID NOTHING.  

if you can produce a quote by anyone not named Williams asking for money, i’ll agree with you. 

if not, well....

[Nutriaitch]

but let’s drop this argument and get to the part that affects LSU. 

Guice was a complete shitbag of a human being dating back to his LSU days. 

LSU knew he was and did nothing to stop it. 

no fornicating way in hell was O informed that “something” happened involving the best player on the team without him asking for more details. 

He knew. He had to know. 

this is not going to end well at all. 

[LSUDad]

We have kind of forgot this one!

 

https://thehayride.com/2021/04/the-koy-who-cried-wolf/?fbclid=IwAR20u0jVv6vntVjx8RCcDVDMD4Iyz14p6cmvW08Q7_XNetaoT8k53nQs1mI

[LSUDad]

 

https://youtu.be/o-p0OuHmgr0

[houtiger]

18 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

if you can produce a quote by anyone not named Williams asking for money, i’ll agree with you. 

if not, well....

I have produced the phone call where Gloria specifically names Williams to represent her.

[Nutriaitch]

12 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I have produced the phone call where Gloria specifically names Williams to represent her.

congrats. 

so not a single quote about money from anyone not named Williams?

Segar called him out on it. 
Verge called him out on it. 
Scott called him out on it.

Dude was full of shyte. 

 

[Nutriaitch]

13 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I have produced the phone call where Gloria specifically names Williams to represent her.

i produced a quote by Scott saying she never authorized him to ask for money and he did so without her permission. 

So if we trust her when she says “Williams represents me” the. we must also trust when she says “I never gave him permission to ask for money”

[houtiger]

18 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

but let’s drop this argument and get to the part that affects LSU. 

Guice was a complete shitbag of a human being dating back to his LSU days. 

LSU knew he was and did nothing to stop it. 

no fornicating way in hell was O informed that “something” happened involving the best player on the team without him asking for more details. 

He knew. He had to know. 

this is not going to end well at all. 

O knew about what?  About the Scott incident, sure he knew which is why he had Guice on the phone to apologize.  O attempted to make it right, Scott did not see it that way, but O tried.  The only argument is over how good O's judgment was in attempting to make amends for the incident.  O won't be in trouble for that.

Regarding women who said Guice raped them, and they reported it to various folks at LSU (none named Orgeron), if LSU personnel charged with actually investigating such claims, failed to do their job, failed to adequately investigate, then they are in trouble, or they should be.  But O is not an attorney nor law enforcement. 

Guice was entitled to due process, but in a criminal matter, that is not O's job.  There are other people at LSU whose job that is, and if they did not do that, prove that Guice was guilty to the satisfaction of the university at least, then O has some cover for not suspending or dismissing Guice.  If the people at LSU whose job it is to investigate such complaints did not investigate, or investigated and arrived at the wrong conclusion, then those folks need to be dealt with.

Miles was in trouble because Miles sexually harassed women in the athletic department, not because his players did.

 

[houtiger]

23 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

i produced a quote by Scott saying she never authorized him to ask for money and he did so without her permission. 

So if we trust her when she says “Williams represents me” the. we must also trust when she says “I never gave him permission to ask for money”

Let me let you in on a little secret, if you are a participant in a scheme to blackmail the university, you might get someone else to make the offer for you, and then deny that you did, because then it is hard to prosecute you.  People lie.

"With blackmail, a person threatens to reveal embarrassing or damaging information if a demand is not met."

Heck, by this definition, Gloria Scott was clearly blackmailing LSU when she demanded that they suspend Guice from the Citrus Bowl, or she would go to the media and to the police to file a charge.  They have that on tape. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

People lie.

except Williams when he said Scott asked for money, right?

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

"With blackmail, a person threatens to reveal embarrassing or damaging information if a demand is not met."

Heck, by this definition, Gloria Scott was clearly blackmailing LSU when she demanded that they suspend Guice from the Citrus Bowl, or she would go to the media and to the police to file a charge.  They have that on tape. 

i’ve never once denied this part. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

O knew about what?  About the Scott incident, sure he knew which is why he had Guice on the phone to apologize.  O attempted to make it right, Scott did not see it that way, but O tried.  The only argument is over how good O's judgment was in attempting to make amends for the incident.  O won't be in trouble for that.

Regarding women who said Guice raped them, and they reported it to various folks at LSU (none named Orgeron), if LSU personnel charged with actually investigating such claims, failed to do their job, failed to adequately investigate, then they are in trouble, or they should be.  But O is not an attorney nor law enforcement. 

Guice was entitled to due process, but in a criminal matter, that is not O's job.  There are other people at LSU whose job that is, and if they did not do that, prove that Guice was guilty to the satisfaction of the university at least, then O has some cover for not suspending or dismissing Guice.  If the people at LSU whose job it is to investigate such complaints did not investigate, or investigated and arrived at the wrong conclusion, then those folks need to be dealt with.

Miles was in trouble because Miles sexually harassed women in the athletic department, not because his players did.

 

this isn’t a legal case.  

O can bench and suspend any player he wants for any reason he wants.  And other than complain, there ain’t a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Joe Paterno did everything he was legally obligated to do. 
Got fired.  
Because “he didn’t do as much as he could have”  

People want a head. 
they are now digging up anything and everything they can find anywhere. 

Hell O’s restraint in order from the Grunge Era was just recently “revealed”. And that wasn’t anything new.  Everyone knew that happened back then. He spoke about in his book even. 

But the vultures are circling. 
and it’s extremely rare in today’s society that they don’t get blood when they start craving it. 

Had LSU fires Verge and Segar instead of suspending them, this probably wouldn’t still be news. 

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

except Williams when he said Scott asked for money, right?

OK, you don't know Williams, and I don't know Gloria.  Except you seem to be prejudiced against AAU coaches.  I am sure they are not ALL bad.

Neither of us knows for sure.

All I am saying is that the story Gloria tells is consistent with the story one would tell, if attempting to blackmail someone, and wanting to make oneself appear to be innocent, regardless of what is taking place behind closed doors. 

Given she is already a little into blackmailing LSU, and frankly that did not dawn on my when she was just asking for Guice's suspension from the bowl as it was too small an "ask for", but she's not clean.  Of course nobody would go after her for blackmail if all she asked for was a suspension.  But then her side upped the ante.

What incentive would Williams have to ask for 100K for Gloria?  The check would be made out to Gloria, so Williams would have nothing to gain, unless he had discussed the deal with her prior to making the blackmail demand, and he knew what cut she had offered him.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by houtiger

[Nutriaitch]

 

8 minutes ago, houtiger said:

What incentive would Williams have to ask for 100K for Gloria?  The check would be made out to Gloria, so Williams would have nothing to gain, unless he had discussed the deal with her prior to making the blackmail demand, and he knew what cut she had offered him.

 

have you never watched a movie?

A. these people ain’t exactly Mensa material. 

B. it’s way more common than you think for the “agent” to shoot ridiculously higher than asked to in hopes of securing a bigger payday for themselves. 

 

And i’m not biased against AAU coaches.  Of everything i’ve read (including transcripts), if i had to guess which character in this whole ordeal is most likely to be completely full of shyte, it’s Williams. 

 

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

this isn’t a legal case.  

O can bench and suspend any player he wants for any reason he wants.  And other than complain, there ain’t a damn thing anyone can do about it.

That is true, sort of.  If he gets too arbitrary, he will lose the locker room.  A head coach that loses the locker room loses games, then his job.

O owes his players due process  and then fairness, the punishment has to fit the crime.

From what I have read, reports of Guice rape incidents were made, in one case to the ladies tennis coach, to Segar, to Ausberry.  We'd have to go to the HB report to see what happened exactly, but it was not O's responsibility to investigate a possible crime.  If the appropriate people who investigated told O what happened, then it was up to O to act.  If LSU did not adequately investigate, that problem is up the line from O.  O needs definitive information to act on, and it was up to higher ups to get that information.

[houtiger]

5 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

have you never watched a movie?

A. these people ain’t exactly Mensa material. 

B. it’s way more common than you think for the “agent” to shoot ridiculously higher than asked to in hopes of securing a bigger payday for themselves.

It is also common for the criminals to have discussed the "split" before pulling the job.  None of us go on a job without understanding what we will be paid.

[Nutriaitch]

3 minutes ago, houtiger said:

That is true, sort of.  If he gets too arbitrary, he will lose the locker room.  A head coach that loses the locker room loses games, then his job.

O owes his players due process  and then fairness, the punishment has to fit the crime.

From what I have read, reports of Guice rape incidents were made, in one case to the ladies tennis coach, to Segar, to Ausberry.  We'd have to go to the HB report to see what happened exactly, but it was not O's responsibility to investigate a possible crime.  If the appropriate people who investigated told O what happened, then it was up to O to act.  If LSU did not adequately investigate, that problem is up the line from O.  O needs definitive information to act on, and it was up to higher ups to get that information.

again, legally you’re correct. 

but the moment O finds out his stud is involved in something, he as a head coach should feel absolutely compelled to get to the bottom of it. 

let a stud get away with everything will also lose you the locker room. 

it’s a fine line coaches have to walk. not a job i’d want. 

[houtiger]

9 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

again, legally you’re correct. 

but the moment O finds out his stud is involved in something, he as a head coach should feel absolutely compelled to get to the bottom of it. 

let a stud get away with everything will also lose you the locker room. 

it’s a fine line coaches have to walk. not a job i’d want. 

I managed departments in 4 fortune 500 companies for 30 years.  The manager handles all the routine discipline in the department, tardiness, failure to perform assigned tasks, disrespect of fellow employees, etc.

Any time there was suspected criminal activity, you notified HR and after that, HR would investigate with legal (and sometimes with private investigators), and you were told, we've got this and this is the last you may hear of this.  In one case, months later I was shown the letter from HR terminating the employee.  The letter I saw was a personal favor, from an HR director I had worked well with for 10 years and she knew I would not say anything.   HR and the lawyers don't want a good employee getting in trouble because of past goodwill and the personal relationship you have with the employee, through your lack of experience, or not believing that a lawsuit can be coming.  They are correct.  95 times out of 100, nothing bad will happen, but boy those 5 times it goes sideways, they can be very expensive.

The football coach does not have the resources to conduct a rape investigation.  He has to leave that to others with the expertise and resources, and based on their findings, take the action that is warranted.

What seems apparent is that Segar and Ausberry did not do their jobs properly, and the action taken by LSU with respect to them was inadequate punishment for their failure to act properly on the serious charges that were before them.

And it sounds like Sharon Lewis has grounds for a case.  I wonder if she has emails?  But it sounds like a lot of the hostile work environment was verbal, but the reporting says there was some witness corroboration.

[Nutriaitch]

State looking into Subpoena options to force O to testify

 https://247sports.com/college/south-carolina/Article/Ed-Orgeron-LSU-football-state-looking-into-subpoena-for-sexual-misconduct-within-football-program--163825490/

 

 

[dachsie]

7 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

State looking into Subpoena options to force O to testify

 https://247sports.com/college/south-carolina/Article/Ed-Orgeron-LSU-football-state-looking-into-subpoena-for-sexual-misconduct-within-football-program--163825490/

 

 

He looks like he is hiding something.  Not a good look

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, dachsie said:

He looks like he is hiding something.  Not a good look

nah, it’s the right move to try to avoid it. 

most defense lawyers (i realize he’s not a “defendant”) will never let their clients take the stand. 

Especially with someone like O who has diarrhea of the mouth and constantly just says what he he thinks his audience at that time wants to hear. 

Anyone with any lawyering background at all on that panel could probably get him to admit to the Kennedy Assassination even though he was only 2 years old at the time.