Things Coach O is doing better than Les...

[houtiger]

3 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

Theres lot of things O is absolutely doing better than Miles. 

Thanks!  I agree.  Some of those, like an improved offensive scheme.

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Nootch, you are taking advantage of hindsight.  You had to look at all these guys at the time, mostly you were looking at talent and potential.  I look at success in the NFL to see if that potential was realized,

 

Yep, definitely should've sought out a transfer instead of using that bum jamarcus since he failed in the nfl.

/sarcasm

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Nootch, you are taking advantage of hindsight.  You had to look at all these guys at the time, mostly you were looking at talent and potential.  I look at success in the NFL to see if that potential was realized, and only Mett lasted more than a year, most of ours were cut before the season.  A lot of the guys on my list had much better runs in the NFL, some are still there.  We fans thought Perrilloux was a star, but we never saw him to any extent, except the SEC championship game, and I admit, he threw one of my favorite passes at LSU, a beaut to the corner of the end zone.  But one pass and one game do not a career make.  He started at Jacksonville St., won offensive player of the year for their conference his sr. year, completed his degree eventually, but he never made an NFL roster, closest he came was the practice squad for the Giants for one year, tried the CFL and did not work out there.  If you don't look at his press clippings out of high school, who was better, Ryan or Nick Foles?

Did Hatch or Bolden or Etling sniff the NFL?  None, except Danny, got drafted in the 7th round, cut before the season.  Mett lasted 3 or 4 years, got a few starts due to injury ahead of him, career backup.

 

do you know the definition of the word “hindsight”?

because i gave stats and standings AT THE TIME THEY TRANSFERRED.  

you’re using the NFL. 

which of the above is using hindsight?

because the rules do not allow us to use those guys after they play in the NFL. 

we didn’t see much of Perilloux?!!?

he threw as many TDs as Foles had total pass attempts.  he played in 12 games. Got 2 starts that year. Accounted for 10 TDs (8 passing ; 2 rushing).   4 of those 10 TDs came against Va Tech, Florida, and Tenn. Had more TDs than Mallett despite having fewer attempts.  Had a higher completion percentage, higher passer rating, fewer Ints, and more total yards.

AT THE TIME of those transfers, the projections for Perilloux were off the charts better than both of those guys.  His presence alone had us in the discussion of repeating as champs.  He was widely considered a potential Heisman candidate.

so why in God’s name would we even consider looking elsewhere at all?  we had our guy  and behind him was a 4* RS freshman, and a 4* true freshman waiting in the wings.

we had a QB situation other schools would envy.

Nick Foles winning a Super Bowl is completely irrelevant when discussing ‘07/‘08 college football.

 

[houtiger]

14 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

AT THE TIME of those transfers, the projections for Perilloux were off the charts better than both of those guys.  His presence alone had us in the discussion of repeating as champs.  He was widely considered a potential Heisman candidate.

so why in God’s name would we even consider looking elsewhere at all?  we had our guy  and behind him was a 4* RS freshman, and a 4* true freshman waiting in the wings.

we had a QB situation other schools would envy.

We also know that some of those 5* recruits don't work out, and many of the 4* recruits don't work out, not just at LSU but at all programs around the country.  And it seems that at QB it is even harder to tell about high schoolers than other positions, whether the kid ends up with the "it" factor.  After Perrilloux left, we were in a lurch, particularly an inexperience lurch and Miles went with Hatch but we could see his noodle arm.  Then we went to the freshmen, and suffered through Jefferson and Lee for 4 years.  Now, their senior year, we didn't suffer much.  Lee was very good until Inbred Gumps pressured him.  Then  Jefferson was ok for a few games, until Inbred Gumps practiced against the QB option and shut him down, and his passing deficiency cost us a national title.  With a reasonably competent offense we might have won that game, I mean we kept giving the ball back to Inbred Gumps, and our defense kept holding them, still only down 14 -0 in the 4th quarter, until they ran out of gas and gave up a quick one.  We had 4 years to improve our situation, but we didn't.  Les sat pat with a team good enough to win titles, except for his offensive scheme and poor QB play when the chips were down against top competition.  We needed an upgrade we never got, and there were guys out there if we had gone looking and properly evaluated their skills.

I'm done with this, its getting repetitive.  I won't convince you that Les did us a disservice by not pursuing a more talented transfer (or maybe he did  and they just wouldn't come play in his offense).  And you are not going to convince me that there was nobody available in Les's tenure that were better than all of the QB's we had in every year.  Everyone else can make their mind up, there is plenty of data and discussion.

I hope the topic can resume with its original intent, with things that O is doing better than Les. 

[Dru]

It's hard for me to say that Orgeron has done anything of real note better than Les.

The Ensminger hire was certainly met with a lot of groans, but it looks fairly good right about now.  He's not scared to call a passing play on first down and he's willing to throw it five times in a row if that's what the defense is giving us.  Yet, having a competent, confident, intelligent QB will allow you to do things you might not otherwise do.  Les and his multiple offensive coordinators were absolutely terrible in offensive game planning and play calling after the Perrilloux debacle and Jarrett Lee throwing multiple pick 6's.  We are less conservative on offense at this moment than in the latter years of Les, but Les' early years were littered with some ballsy play calling.

I can't say that O has recruited better than Miles did.  One he was on some of those staffs, two we're still recruiting in that 10 to 5 ranking and losing out to the best recruiting teams, including specific targets that defect to Inbred Gumps.  Has O hit up the transfer market a little more to fill a hole?  Probably, but some of that is out of necessity and out of missing on players we expected to have commit to us.  Did we do a good job wooing Burrow, yes, from Ohio and Urban Meyer to Louisiana and Ensminger isn't an easy sell.  Still, Burrow did fall in our laps for a number of reasons including the fact that Burrow worked his tail off to finish his course work, putting himself into position to be able to transfer and play right away were the chips not to fall his way at Ohio State.  Without that stroke of luck, we'd be starting Brennan and who knows how bad this offense could look.  We'd probably have multiple pick 6's by now and dropped an extra game or two.  When it comes to the offensive and defensive lines, despite trying to fortify those we are still thin each time a guy gets suspended or nicked up.  We're constantly having to move guys to a different position on the line.

Aranda was Miles' hire.  I guess whatever working friendship he has with O is a good one and certainly O made sure to get him PAID in order to keep him here, but most every coach I've ever heard from liked Les too.  Aranda has complete control of that defense and, I believe, has helped quite a bit with making it clear to O when we are thin at a position and need someone.

O has made a couple other hires and created a shadow staff, but some of that is the conclusion of some change to NCAA rules.  Maybe I give O a slight edge here, but he's done what all coaches do.  Hire coaches they already know and have worked with before, including E, Sullivan, McMahon.  While Canada ended up being a giant let down, O did move on from his mistake as quickly as reasonable.  Something Les often would not do.  Yet, Les also was also able to get some guys' jobs elsewhere when it was time to move on, he used that tactic in some instances. 

IMO, O has sort of not wrecked the Ferrari.  Ok, maybe Camaro is more like it.  He can get the team fired up, but players would run through a brick wall for Les also.  O doesn't meddle in the game plan, but yet he did with Canada and the rift most likely made it difficult on the offensive coaching staff as a whole.

It's still early in his tenure so the proof will be in the pudding.  

[Fishhead]

Hammer meet nail...great post Dru. Especially this...

Has O hit up the transfer market a little more to fill a hole?  Probably, but some of that is out of necessity and out of missing on players we expected to have commit to us. 

Also, as we've learned in this thread, we won't know if Burrow was a good get or not until he wins the Super Bowl. 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

35 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

Hammer meet nail...great post Dru. Especially this...

 

 

Also, as we've learned in this thread, we won't know if Burrow was a good get or not until he wins the Super Bowl. 

 

 

heaven forbid Shea Patterson have a better NFL career. 

[dachsie]

On October 18, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Nutriaitch said:

this is really a simple question. 

and ive asked it multiple times now. 

who is the transfer QB that Les did not get. from 2008-2016?

Patterson was after Les got fired. Also wasn’t allowed to transfer in conference.

Grier was suspended for drug issues in 2015. also wasn’t allowed to transfer within the conference. 

you’ve already tried using Troy Aikman. now you scraping up guys from Riverside Community College that haven’t even played outside of garbage time.

Les landed QBs. 

couldnt coach or develop them to save his life. But he landed a good amount of QBs that were respected and highly recruited before they got here. 

so you saying he didn’t “get them” is factually inaccurate.

that the ones he did get all played like ahit is a completely different discussion.  and actually proves that chances are even Baker Mayfield would have sucked at LSU. 

Could someone answer this question?  I want to know the answer

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, dachsie said:

Could someone answer this question?  I want to know the answer

Page 2, Thursday 10:14 PM, my post.

[houtiger]

I wanted to post this myself, but found this article snipet and it says it all on "analysts".

"LSU doubling its number of analysts

The way Ed Orgeron tells the story, he was shown the scouting report Alabama had on LSU and was embarrassed by how much information the Tide had on them. 

LSU had five analysts, but it wasn’t capable of creating reports like that. 

So Orgeron went to Joe Alleva and asked to expand this area, and Alleva agreed to let LSU hire five more analysts. LSU doubled its number of analysts, and Orgeron has consistently said this season it’s made a dramatic difference. 

Instead of coaches having to put together this background information during the week, analysts have already completed scouting an opponent’s past games and broken it up into categories. Everything is ready by the time the week starts. 

In turn, LSU is much more educated football program and more prepared for opponents. "

https://www.nola.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/10/73d1c9f6b55528/all-the-moves-that-helped-make.html

I wonder if any of the analysts gets an opportunity to become a position coach someday at LSU? 

[Nutriaitch]

59 minutes ago, houtiger said:

The way Ed Orgeron tells the story,

 

the way someone NOT trying to sell something to the fan base tells the story (written during offseason 2016)

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-GayTurds/swamp-things-blog/os-sp-college-football-support-staff-0709-story.html

Bielema’s support staff last season totaled 18 members to rank 13th in the 14-team SEC, according to an Orlando Sentinel survey of 2016 media guides. Alabama and Georgia boast 29 support staff members, South Carolina 25, Florida 23 and LSU 23.

 

TWENTY-THREE members of support staff going into 2016 season. That’s staff outside of the on field coaches, strength coaches, and grad assistants. 

what were these guys doing?

dont know. Because Orgeron is literally the only coach in the country that advertises what support staff is doing. 

Only reason you know about Saban’s guys is because he keeps hiring forever big name head coaches. 

[houtiger]

The article does not shed much light on the size of LSU "analysts" staff.  Do you think it says O was lying about having 5 analysts, and Alleva approving 5 more analysts, and that expanding the analyst staff from 5 to 10 has helped the team?  From reading the article, it is quite possible that both articles are true.

[Fishhead]

1 minute ago, houtiger said:

The article does not shed much light on the size of LSU "analysts" staff.  Do you think it says O was lying about having 5 analysts, and Alleva approving 5 more analysts, and that expanding the analyst staff from 5 to 10 has helped the team?  From reading the article, it is quite possible that both articles are true.

Not sure exactly when it happened, but i don't think the whole "shadow staff" thing was in place when miles was here. So not sure this counts as something O is doing better than miles

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

The article does not shed much light on the size of LSU "analysts" staff.  Do you think it says O was lying about having 5 analysts, and Alleva approving 5 more analysts, and that expanding the analyst staff from 5 to 10 has helped the team?  From reading the article, it is quite possible that both articles are true.

 

i think literally every single coach in the country is lying 95% of the times they speak. 

part of their jobs is to tell the fans what they want to hear.  even if it’s just didley-poo lip service. 

what any of these shadow staff are doing now, vs before is anyone’s guess.  because literally no coaching staff ever actually discusses it. 

the quality of the staff may very well have improved. or even what specifics roles the guys play may also have improved. or they may be the same. or they may be just bringing the staff Burritos every day. 

the total number of them is just BS being spewed to quiet the ignorant part of the fanbase that thinks “shadow staff” is the reason Saban is dominating the country.

 

newsflash: Saban was a dominant coach before Shadow Staffs even existed. 

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

i think literally every single coach in the country is lying 95% of the times they speak. 

part of their jobs is to tell the fans what they want to hear.  even if it’s just didley-poo lip service. 

what any of these shadow staff are doing now, vs before is anyone’s guess.  because literally no coaching staff ever actually discusses it. 

the quality of the staff may very well have improved. or even what specifics roles the guys play may also have improved. or they may be the same. or they may be just bringing the staff Burritos every day. 

the total number of them is just BS being spewed to quiet the ignorant part of the fanbase that thinks “shadow staff” is the reason Saban is dominating the country.

 

newsflash: Saban was a dominant coach before Shadow Staffs even existed. 

So, you don't have any facts to dispute the article I posted from, written by Brody Miller at the Times Picayune, but you are calling Orgeron a liar.  Because Miller says this is what Orgeron told him.

I know it is hard for you to believe that Orgeron went from being a losing coach at OM to a winning coach at LSU, but he did.  We had that discussion a couple of years ago.

With Miles the program was regressing.  With Orgeron it is progressing.  There must be some things he is doing better than Miles did in Miles post 2011 era.  That is all I am trying to get at.  I'm sorry if you can't accept that.  I'm sorry you have to believe that Orgeron is lying when he says he went to Alleva and got approval to hire 5 more analysts and Orgeron says that is helping the program.

I am going to believe that Orgeron is not lying ab0ut this, and that Brody Miller is trying to write an accurate and interesting story about why LSU is enjoying more success this year than anyone thought they would, given the difficulty of the schedule.

7 - 1 , believe that.

[Nutriaitch]

2 minutes ago, houtiger said:

So, you don't have any facts to dispute the article I posted from, written by Brody Miller at the Times Picayune, but you are calling Orgeron a liar.  Because Miller says this is what Orgeron told him.

I know it is hard for you to believe that Orgeron went from being a losing coach at OM to a winning coach at LSU, but he did.  We had that discussion a couple of years ago.

With Miles the program was regressing.  With Orgeron it is progressing.  There must be some things he is doing better than Miles did in Miles post 2011 era.  That is all I am trying to get at.  I'm sorry if you can't accept that.  I'm sorry you have to believe that Orgeron is lying when he says he went to Alleva and got approval to hire 5 more analysts and Orgeron says that is helping the program.

I am going to believe that Orgeron is not lying ab0ut this, and that Brody Miller is trying to write an accurate and interesting story about why LSU is enjoying more success this year than anyone thought they would, given the difficulty of the schedule.

7 - 1 , believe that.

 

i posted a link that said lsu had 23 members of the shadow staff in 2016. 

TWENTY-THREE. 

O says he doubled the staff to 10.  TEN.

it has been a long time since i took a math class, but when i did 10 was not twice as many as 23.

 

thats not an opinion. it’s a provable fact.

you can google math if you don’t understand it.

 

i think O is doing a great job.  and have given him credit for it.

i just find it humorous that people don’t just accept that and search for meaningless BS to try to either prop him higher or knock down other coaches.

 

[houtiger]

8 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

i posted a link that said lsu had 23 members of the shadow staff in 2016. 

TWENTY-THREE. 

O says he doubled the staff to 10.  TEN.

it has been a long time since i took a math class, but when i did 10 was not twice as many as 23.

 

thats not an opinion. it’s a provable fact.

you can google math if you don’t understand it.

 

i think O is doing a great job.  and have given him credit for it.

i just find it humorous that people don’t just accept that and search for meaningless BS to try to either prop him higher or knock down other coaches.

Obviously there are positions in the "staff" in addition to "analysts".   Just on the LSU website, there is Ponamsky, Kevin Faulk, and Sharon Lewis, they are staff members but not analysts.   It is clear that NOT ALL staff are analysts.  Staff is not equal to analyst.

You are equating 'staff' and 'analyst' and you are wrong.  You have made a bad assumption.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/03/12/lsu-coaching-staff-kevin-coyle-bengals-dolphins

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_2379279e-0cfc-11e8-a12f-5b48c1900d75.html

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2018/02/01/former-cajuns-offensive-coordinator-jorge-munoz-hired-lsu-offensive-analyst/1087030001/

Here is a job posting for "analyst" dated 2/26/2018.

https://lsu.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/LSUWaiver/job/LSU---Baton-Rouge/Lead-Football-Analyst_R00020722

 

[Nutriaitch]

21 minutes ago, houtiger said:

  There must be some things he is doing better than Miles did in Miles post 2011 era.  That is all I am trying to get at.  I'm sorry if you can't accept that.  I'm sorry you have to believe that Orgeron is lying when he says he went to Alleva and got approval to hire 5 more analysts and Orgeron says that is helping the program.

 

i think there are several things O is doing better than Miles. Said as much too. 

I don’t think any of the things you’ve mentioned yet are good examples though. 

for starters, the biggest thing he’s doing is that he’s trusting his QB.  something Miles refused to do. allow him to make mistakes without looking over his shoulder. 

other than sticking with Giles at PR, ive seen a tremendous improvement in special teams play as well.  Tracy goes without saying, punt game has been solid, we don’t give up big returns.

those two thing combined with better clock management are far and away the main reasons were seeing the level of success we’re having. 

 

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

i think there are several things O is doing better than Miles. Said as much too. 

I don’t think any of the things you’ve mentioned yet are good examples though. 

for starters, the biggest thing he’s doing is that he’s trusting his QB.  something Miles refused to do. allow him to make mistakes without looking over his shoulder. 

other than sticking with Giles at PR, ive seen a tremendous improvement in special teams play as well.  Tracy goes without saying, punt game has been solid, we don’t give up big returns.

those two thing combined with better clock management are far and away the main reasons were seeing the level of success we’re having.

I agree the things you say are improved, but I don't think they rise to the level of significance in explaining the success the team is having against a difficult schedule.

In order to trust your QB, the QB must have EARNED the trust.  Trust is not given away, it is earned.  If Miles didn't trust his QB's it is because they didn't EARN it.  If they didn't earn it, Miles and Crowton, Stud, and Cam Cameron must have looked at them, known what they could do reliably and not do, and they were satisfied with them as starters because they did not go out and try to bring in a QB with a chance to replace them as starters.  Miles failed to upgrade the QB position when it counted, except Mett.

You can say that O got lucky pulling Burrow, but like the great players say when folks say they got lucky, "its funny, but the harder I WORK, the luckier I get!".  And so it is with O.  He said after they failed to recruit a QB (a result of Canada not having his heart in recruiting one due to his feud with O), that they would look at the transfer QB's, and he did, and he got Burrow.  That's just good on O, that is O going to WORK to upgrade a position, a key position, where he evaluated his players and thought he needed a better one to compete more effectively in the league, and based on what we saw in the spring game, O was right.

He's built depth on both lines.  Yes, he's improved special teams, but its just one piece of many that it has taken to bring this team up substantially from where they were last year.  Ensminger deserves credit, he's installed a good offensive scheme and the players execute it well.  I've seen better, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yes, clock management is better but that is a very minor piece of what it took to play ball and beat 3 top 10 ranked teams this season.

I disagree that trust the QB, improve special teams, and improve clock management are the main factors in improving the season from last year, or from the late Miles era.

It's got more to do with bringing in better players, especially QB, changing the offensive scheme, being willing to try some new things (like expanding the analyst staff), upgrading his assistant coaching staff (Dad is very high on Sullivan the receivers coach, and Aranda brought in Busch to coach just safeties).

If you don't do those things, all the clock management and QB trust in the world won't get you to 7-1 against this years schedule.

[Fishhead]

Tbh HT, everyone expanded their staff when it was allowed. It's not some brilliant strategy orgeron came up with that miles didn't. 

Don't get why this is THE thing you're going with in this topic

 

And special teams most CERTAINLY is a big reason we're winning more this year than last. Tracy has been SEC STPOW 4 times already this season. He's a real difference maker. Atkins not allowing returns, then when he does, he dives in a pile and comes out with the ball. 

I give O credit for hiring a way better ST coach than miles in his last few years. But we didn't even have one last year to my knowledge, which was Os fault. He made a good change

[Nutriaitch]

1st things first. 

the schedule so far longer looks as brutal as it did in the off season. Miami and Auburn were both very good wins. But let’s not act like either of those teams are actually top 10 teams this year. 

Miami now has 3 losses. including 2 to unranked teams.  Just because somebody preseason guessed them to be top 10, doesn’t mean they actually deserve it. 

Auburn also has 3 losses. including one to a bad Tennessee team. 

2nd, trusting his QB is not a new thing. He also trusted Etling. Etling didn’t have the physical tool set that Burrow does, so you see different things being called.  But he trusts that they understand the gameplan and won’t make the killer mistake.  You don’t know if they will or won’t in a game until you take them off the leash. Miles’ qb always played with handcuffs on.  He never really gave them the opportunity to see if they would choke. 

3rd, it’s not sexy, but special teams are HUGE. field position is everything. a very simple change in philosophy from even last year has improved us drastically in that department.   even things as simple as using two different punters depending on situation. ask UGA if they would trade special teams performances with us in that game. they would in a heartbeat because us flipping the field when we needed to and them not being able to affected the complection of the game.  For the most part, LSU controlled field position all game long. By not ever giving UGA great field position, they were never able to truly open the offense the way they would want to. And because we had the favorable field position more often than not, it allowed us to use basically our entire playbook starting on first snap of a drive.  Knowing we have a guy that won’t miss a kick also takes pressure off the QB to not HAVE to find the end zone on every possession. Which allows him to play looser and more confidently.

4th, if you don’t think getting set with 25+ seconds left on play clock, giving time to view the D and possibly adjust the call, then getting a snap off in a timely manner isn’t a very significant factor in our success, then i can’t help you. 

 

most of the above come from a philosophical difference from the previous staff.  

we’ve always had players. Burrow would not be as successful with the previous staff as he is now. Which is why i said going get Burrow is not the difference you’re seeing. 

Its how you handle Burrow that matters. 

You can have 100,000 analysts on your staff, but if your entire football philosophy is smash mouth clock control offense and you insist on not kicking ball through the end zone, then you’re gonna struggle when you go against teams with equal talent.  Which is why i say having analysts gather info for you is not nearly as crucial as you make it seem. 

What you do with the info is what matters.

 

So again, i think there’s quite a few things O is doing better than Les did. 

I just don’t think your examples are the major contributors. 

 

you say i’m “not accepting of O’s success”. 

but im actually giving him more credit than you are. 

Im watching and seeing improvements in actual coaching philosophy. 

Youre digging up fluff pieces to find an excuse for his success. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

 

In order to trust your QB, the QB must have EARNED the trust.  Trust is not given away, it is earned.  If Miles didn't trust his QB's it is because they didn't EARN it.  If they didn't earn it, Miles and Crowton, Stud, and Cam Cameron must have looked at them, known what they could do reliably and not do, and they were satisfied with them as starters because they did not go out and try to bring in a QB with a chance to replace them as starters.  Miles failed to upgrade the QB position when it counted, except Mett.

You can say that O got lucky pulling Burrow, but like the great players say when folks say they got lucky, "its funny, but the harder I WORK, the luckier I get!".  And so it is with O.  He said after they failed to recruit a QB (a result of Canada not having his heart in recruiting one due to his feud with O), that they would look at the transfer QB's, and he did, and he got Burrow.  That's just good on O, that is O going to WORK to upgrade a position, a key position, where he evaluated his players and thought he needed a better one to compete more effectively in the league, and based on what we saw in the spring game, O was right.

 

not sure why you’re so hung up on this one. because it actually make O look dependent on somebody else developing his QB. 

1st, i have literally never said O was lucky to get Burrow. 

Yes we were fortunate that a Burrow type was available. But we landed him. that’s not luck. 

and we’ve been down this road already in this thread. 

GETTING a quarterback was never an issue for Miles. he landed a lot of highly regarded guys. and was still doing it right up until the end (Brennan was an LSU lock even before Miles got canned).

COACHING them was his problem. Other than Mett, QBs went backwards under Miles. 

They literally looked worse and worse the more they played. Even Matt Flynn regressed as the ‘07 season wore on.  Yeah he had a good NCG, but down stretch of regular season he started having issues.

Which means Nick Foles (just one of your examples) probably never even sniffs the league had Miles got his hands on him as a freshman with 8 career pass attempts.

 

 

[houtiger]

30 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

not sure why you’re so hung up on this one. because it actually make O look dependent on somebody else developing his QB. 

1st, i have literally never said O was lucky to get Burrow. 

Yes we were fortunate that a Burrow type was available. But we landed him. that’s not luck. 

and we’ve been down this road already in this thread. 

GETTING a quarterback was never an issue for Miles. he landed a lot of highly regarded guys. and was still doing it right up until the end (Brennan was an LSU lock even before Miles got canned).

COACHING them was his problem. Other than Mett, QBs went backwards under Miles. 

They literally looked worse and worse the more they played. Even Matt Flynn regressed as the ‘07 season wore on.  Yeah he had a good NCG, but down stretch of regular season he started having issues.

Which means Nick Foles (just one of your examples) probably never even sniffs the league had Miles got his hands on him as a freshman with 8 career pass attempts.

So, you're saying that one of O's things he does better than Miles is develop QB's.

But Mett is a proofpoint that your theory is wrong, that the problem Miles had was not that he couldn't develop them, because clearly Mett developed under Cameron.  Rather, he could not identify a guy that had EVERYTHING required to be a star QB.  Miles was not singular in that respect, there are a lot of 4* QB's that fail at the next level.  But it seems that some coaches can assess the whole package, and get a guy with the whole package (arm, brain, work ethic, leadership, toughness, competitiveness) to go to their school, like Jimbo Fisher did at Fla. State.  EJ Manuel and Jamis did pretty good for Jimbo for years, and nobody talked about ineffective QB play at Fla. St.  I think the inadequate OC's that Les hired were not capable of identifying guys with the whole package and getting them to LSU.  I think when top QB's looked at LSU's offensive scheme, it was easy for recruiters from schools with a reputation for developing QB's to get the top guys to go there instead of LSU.  I think Perrilloux might have had the whole package, but he blew himself up before he got developed.  And he was actually recruited in the early Miles era, Miles first signing class IIRC.

Regarding Foles, it may also be a reason he didn't call LSU to discuss a transfer here.  Miles reputation began to work against him at some point.  There is a reason nobody has made a serious offer to Les since he was fired.  I am sure O and E had to sell Burrow on the fact that the offense would change, and given Burrow's apparent happiness at LSU, it would appear he feels he was treated with integrity and the changes promised were real.  Miles made a promise to change before his last season and he didn't.  That's another feather in Ed's cap.

[Nutriaitch]

10 minutes ago, houtiger said:

So, you're saying that one of O's things he does better than Miles is develop QB's.

But Mett is a proofpoint that your theory is wrong, that the problem Miles had was not that he couldn't develop them, because clearly Mett developed under Cameron.  Rather, he could not identify a guy that had EVERYTHING required to be a star QB.  Miles was not singular in that respect, there are a lot of 4* QB's that fail at the next level.  But it seems that some coaches can assess the whole package, and get a guy with the whole package (arm, brain, work ethic, leadership, toughness, competitiveness) to go to their school, like Jimbo Fisher did at Fla. State.  EJ Manuel and Jamis did pretty good for Jimbo for years, and nobody talked about ineffective QB play at Fla. St.  I think the inadequate OC's that Les hired were not capable of identifying guys with the whole package and getting them to LSU.  I think when top QB's looked at LSU's offensive scheme, it was easy for recruiters from schools with a reputation for developing QB's to get the top guys to go there instead of LSU.  I think Perrilloux might have had the whole package, but he blew himself up before he got developed.  And he was actually recruited in the early Miles era, Miles first signing class IIRC.

Regarding Foles, it may also be a reason he didn't call LSU to discuss a transfer here.  Miles reputation began to work against him at some point.  There is a reason nobody has made a serious offer to Les since he was fired.  I am sure O and E had to sell Burrow on the fact that the offense would change, and given Burrow's apparent happiness at LSU, it would appear he feels he was treated with integrity and the changes promised were real.  Miles made a promise to change before his last season and he didn't.  That's another feather in Ed's cap.

not comparing O’s qb development to Miles at all because it is currently still an unknown. 

we know Les was horrible at it. 

we have no clue where O falls on that spectrum just yet. wont know until we see a guy come from HS and play a full career. We’ll get a possible glimpse next year when we see Burrow compared to this year.

what i am saying is that you think the reasons were good is because O went got a guy that somebody else already coached and developed for him.   

im giving him credit for how he’s using Burrow.  getting him don’t mean shyte if you don’t use him right and play to his strengths  

you’re saying just having a guy developed by Urban was all it took. 

 

 

[houtiger]

I agree it is still early in O's regime.  But, I think it is clear that Etling was better as a Sr. than he was as a Jr.  He even managed to get himself drafted.

And I think we can see the growth in Burrow this season, from the start of the season to now.  Some of that is game experience, and some of that is coaching from E.

From a limited sample, I think you can say QB's are progressing better under O than they did under Les.

Does that translate into the ability to recruit top QB's with the whole package to LSU?  Time will tell.  We have 4* committed for 2019 and 2020, but we know not all 4* are created equal.  Some make great players, and some don't.