LSU @ UCLA

[houtiger]

This is just a random point that jumped into my head, thought I'd share.

I thought Burrow was magical his 5th year Sr. season, we all do.  When teams blitzed him, he knew it was coming, he seemed to know where it was coming from, he knew where his hot outlet was, and he delivered strikes that went for good yards, usually at least five yards.  He was as good as I ever saw in college.  I also seem to remember that he did not go to class his last fall semester.  IIRC he had graduated and was taking the minimum number of classes for a grad student, online classes only.  I heard he spent his time watching film, he was PREPARED big time.  During the playoff run, one of the announcers said "he's a professional playing the college game".

Contrast that with Max Johnson.  He's a second year man, probably has to go to class.  He may not have the same film watching propensity as Joe did.  But he was not prepared for the blitzes he encountered.  And we can't expect him to be Burrow, that's not fair, maybe in 3 years.  At a minimum, he should sense a blitz may come and if it does, hit the receiver left unguarded in one second. 

OK, second point.  The UCLA defense lined up many different ways.  3 down linemen, 4 down linemen, 4 down linemen with both LB up on the line.  When the LB were up on the line, sometimes one came, sometimes both came, and sometimes neither came and both dropped back in pass coverage.  Pretty tricky.

The LSU defense OTOH, stayed very basic as near as I can remember.  We didn't make them guess at what we were going to do on a play.  Seems like we need to add pressure to their preparation and game recognition.  That would be on Coach Jones.

And on the UCLA blitzes and multiple alignments, FH pointed this out, where the hell are our "analysts"?  It seems to me those guys had all summer to get ready to play UCLA, and we weren't ready.  I wouldn't mind seeing one of those guys get fired, light a fire under the rest of the analysts.  That seemed like laziness.

[Nutriaitch]

 

2 hours ago, houtiger said:

The LSU defense OTOH, stayed very basic as near as I can remember.  We didn't make them guess at what we were going to do on a play.  Seems like we need to add pressure to their preparation and game recognition.  That would be on Coach Jones.

And on the UCLA blitzes and multiple alignments, FH pointed this out, where the hell are our "analysts"?  It seems to me those guys had all summer to get ready to play UCLA, and we weren't ready.  I wouldn't mind seeing one of those guys get fired, light a fire under the rest of the analysts.  That seemed like laziness.

 

we haven't made adjustments in 11 games now.

and the person whose shoulders that fall on ain't named Jones.

[houtiger]

5 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

we haven't made adjustments in 11 games now.

and the person whose shoulders that fall on ain't named Jones.

I disagree.  We are paying Jones $1.3 million a year, for a two year contract, the same deal as Jake Peetz.  (Woodward is learning, not too long).

He's the defensive coordinator, and that's the guy I look at first when the defense fails. 

If Jones cannot do the job, then it falls to the head coach to fix it.  He can take over, he can take a more group approach and sit in the meetings and solicit input and seek improvement by committee, he can fire Jones and let someone else on the staff take over, maybe an analyst, like Sarkesian took over for Kiffin when he fell out with Saban just before their natty game a few years ago.

But if the defense is broke, it is on the DC.

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

I disagree.  We are paying Jones $1.3 million a year, for a two year contract, the same deal as Jake Peetz.  (Woodward is learning, not too long).

He's the defensive coordinator, and that's the guy I look at first when the defense fails. 

If Jones cannot do the job, then it falls to the head coach to fix it.  He can take over, he can take a more group approach and sit in the meetings and solicit input and seek improvement by committee, he can fire Jones and let someone else on the staff take over, maybe an analyst, like Sarkesian took over for Kiffin when he fell out with Saban just before their natty game a few years ago.

But if the defense is broke, it is on the DC.

1 problem I have with that...

The defense is broken exactly the same as last season, and only 1 of those things is constant.  The HC. The one that hired both coordinators that to date have fielded identically broken defenses. 

 

 

[LSUDad]

They did a great job with their defense, a gamble most times, mixing well. Cover 0, delayed blitz, etc. The gamble payed off. 
 

[Fishhead]

I made the mistake of trying to watch the game again. 

Ouch. 

First quarter was more than acceptable, Max looked good. OL was bad overall. 3 sacks in first quarter. Running game sucked all along. But he was 9 of 13 with 5 or 6 receivers involved. 

Defense was solid except when baskerville got overmatched on drive 1.

 

Then the 2nd quarter happened and I couldn't watch anymore. Ugly. 

[COTiger]

I have it recorded, but I doubt that I will watch it.  They don't make a stomach medicine strong enough.

[Nutriaitch]

4 hours ago, houtiger said:

I disagree.  We are paying Jones $1.3 million a year, for a two year contract,

we are paying his boss $8 mil to look like Ole Miss circa 2005. 

You want to guess  what else we have in common with 2005 Ole Miss?

 

[houtiger]

6 hours ago, Fishhead said:

1 problem I have with that...

The defense is broken exactly the same as last season, and only 1 of those things is constant.  The HC. The one that hired both coordinators that to date have fielded identically broken defenses.

I don't buy it.  Unless you tell me that O told Pelini how to run his defense, AND he is telling Jones how to run his defense.  I don't believe it.  Corey Raymond has ALL of the secondary this year, he is a known good coach, helped maintain the tradition of DBU.  But the secondary did not play well, and that is not on O, its on Corey Raymond.

Heck, last year if O did tell Pelini how to run the defense, it was not at the beginning of the season, it would have been toward the end of the season after he lost confidence in Pelini, and the defense was playing better, getting us the win at Florida, and a win at Ole Miss, with a depleted secondary due to injuries.

You and Nootch are making all of every problem O's fault.  That is not fair and balanced.  Did O pick all the coaches, yes he did.  But those new coaches are responsible to coach their position group, and THEY are not getting the job done in the first place.

[Nutriaitch]

 

52 minutes ago, houtiger said:

But those new coaches are responsible to coach their position group, and THEY are not getting the job done in the first place.

amazing how it’s never O’s fault. 

Canada wasn’t. 
E in 2018 wasn’t. 
Pelini last year wasn’t. 
Craptastic performance this year isn’t. 

Hell only thing that was O’s fault was 2019 somehow. 

 

 

[houtiger]

6 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

amazing how it’s never O’s fault. 

Canada wasn’t. 
E in 2018 wasn’t. 
Pelini last year wasn’t. 
Craptastic performance this year isn’t. 

Hell only thing that was O’s fault was 2019 somehow.

Your statement is NOT TRUE, and is a good example of your "all or nothing" outlook.  You lack balance.

In the topic on "grade coach o" just a few weeks back, this is what I wrote that is negative on coach O, it is very negative and I intended it to be very negative.

Quote

In picking coordinators and assistant coaches, I give O a C.  Hit and miss.  The really bad were Matt Canada and Bo Pelini.  Pelini was a major contributor to the failure of the defense last year.  Canada's offense was not so bad, but inter personally he was not a fit.  The waste of LSU money to buy out these coordinators is pathetic.  The head coach MUST be a watchdog over the resources of the athletic dept. and O needs a LOT of improvement there.  Miles brought Aranda to LSU, and he served admirably, at least O retained him for a while.  I won't go to position coaches, too much variables there.  Obviously Joe Brady was a clear BIG WIN for O.  He wanted to change, saw what he wanted, went for it, hey Natty!!!!  The statement that he did not interview Pelini, well that is pitiful for a head coach.  It's negligence.  And it cost us terribly.  Hopefully he learned a lesson, and an expensive one for LSU.

So, your statement that "it is never O's fault" is incorrect, at least with regard to me. 

So where is your fair and balanced assessment of O?

[Fishhead]

8 hours ago, houtiger said:

I don't buy it.  Unless you tell me that O told Pelini how to run his defense, AND he is telling Jones how to run his defense.  I don't believe it.  Corey Raymond has ALL of the secondary this year, he is a known good coach, helped maintain the tradition of DBU.  But the secondary did not play well, and that is not on O, its on Corey Raymond.

Heck, last year if O did tell Pelini how to run the defense, it was not at the beginning of the season, it would have been toward the end of the season after he lost confidence in Pelini, and the defense was playing better, getting us the win at Florida, and a win at Ole Miss, with a depleted secondary due to injuries.

You and Nootch are making all of every problem O's fault.  That is not fair and balanced.  Did O pick all the coaches, yes he did.  But those new coaches are responsible to coach their position group, and THEY are not getting the job done in the first place.

Head coach is responsible for the whole team. 

As you said, he hired em. His responsibility. He hired two guys that never called plays to call plays. In my opinion, it's because nobody else wanted to work for him. If you can't see he's losing it OFF the field too, not sure what to tell you. 

 

[Nutriaitch]

 

2 hours ago, houtiger said:

So where is your fair and balanced assessment of O?

Right here:

after 2016 - he needs to nail the OC hire for this to work. 

after 2017 - he needs to nail the OC hire after the Canada debacle. 

after 2018 - E isn’t good enough he needs help. 

after 2019 - he needs to nail the Brady replacement hire and nail the DC hire. 

after 2020 - he needs to nail both Coordinator hires 

after 2021 opener - the coordinators need to fix this shyte show. 

 

i’m done blaming coordinators. 
there is ONE common denominator to all of this. 

 

when is the last time you heard any say that Saban, Dabo, Jimbo, Mullen, Ryan Day, etc have to absolutely nail a coordinator hire to have a shot?

never.  because they can actually coach themselves instead of needing the best in the planet to prop him up. 

[Nutriaitch]

also, you want fair?

after 5 years of his coordinators not getting the job done, Miles was relieved of his duties. 

this is year 5 for O. 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

oh, and no O does not get a pass or a break because it's been a different coordinator every year.
if anything it's a harsher knock, because he absolutely sucks at picking assistants. 

And sucking at picking assistants is not good at all for a guy that literally campaigned for the job saying he himself wasn't going to do the coaching, his assistant would.

[houtiger]

I am not saying that O may not deserve to be fired after Miss St. game, or near the end of the season depending on how it goes.  He may, but I will reserve judgment for at least 3 weeks.  If we're still playing like against UCLA, let the cards fall where they may.

But look at the record in 2017, 18 and 19, it got better every year, and the recruiting class rank improved every year.  Even FH said after 2019, he thought maybe the O hire would work out.  Now FH is on a revisionist history mission, even saying that Bill Busch brought Burrow to LSU, which he did not.  O supposedly asked Busch if Burrow was good, and Busch told O, if Burrow comes here we will win the natty.  But O brought Burrow here.  When Joe got up on the Heisman stage, he didn't thank Bill Busch, he thanked O.

Obviously that turned around in 2020 and headed south.  We gave O a pass because he lost so much talent.  But he had do get it fixed in 2021.  Based on one game, he has not got it fixed.  The question now is can they right the ship quickly.

I think Fish and Nootch are twisting every possible fact against O and trying to make him look like the devil incarnate.

I am not an O apologist.   He's done some good things and some bad things, and I just like to keep it honest and balanced. 

If the product doesn't improve dramatically in 3 weeks, I have no problem if Woodward wants to can him.  O would deserve that.  My complaint then would be why did Woodward give him a six million dollar a year contract and make it for 6 years.  That's stupidity, it was way too long of a deal.  And actually, Woodward is the CEO of the $100 million dollar a year LSU sports business, and O is the chief operating officer, reporting to Woodward.

Edited:  This is my last statement on the topic, we're just going to go in circles after this.

Edited September 10, 2021 by houtiger

[Nutriaitch]

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

But look at the record in 2017, 18

the same record got the previous regime fired.

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

and 19,

and i've given him credit for 2019.

But look at literally every other year of this dude's entire life.  
2019 is the anomaly. By a very, very, very long stretch too.

 

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

it got better every year, and the recruiting class rank improved every year.  Even FH said after 2019, he thought maybe the O hire would work out.  Now FH is on a revisionist history mission, even saying that Bill Busch brought Burrow to LSU, which he did not.  O supposedly asked Busch if Burrow was good, and Busch told O, if Burrow comes here we will win the natty.  But O brought Burrow here.  When Joe got up on the Heisman stage, he didn't thank Bill Busch, he thanked O.

OK, give him 100% credit for Burrow, Brady, and 2019. I'm fine with that.

But you then have to give him 100% blame for the shitshow that was September 2017.
The shitshow that was 2020
The shitshow that was the UCLA game.
The 1 solid assistant hire vs get close to double digits in bad hires.
The shitshow that is our current PR appearance
etc.
etc.
etc.

The shitshows s far and away outnumber the good that he should probably be paying LSU for the privilege of standing on the sidelines every saturday.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I think Fish and Nootch are twisting every possible fact against O and trying to make him look like the devil incarnate.

 

No, i think he is a bad football coach. And i think he is even worse at PR than he is at coaching football.

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Now FH is on a revisionist history mission, even saying that Bill Busch brought Burrow to LSU, which he did not.  O supposedly asked Busch if Burrow was good, and Busch told O, if Burrow comes here we will win the natty.  But O brought Burrow here.  When Joe got up on the Heisman stage, he didn't thank Bill Busch, he thanked O.

 

I think Fish and Nootch are twisting every possible fact against O and trying to make him look like the devil incarnate.

 

I can tell you it's pretty common knowledge Bill Busch is the one that reached out to Jimmy Burrow before Ed O knew who Joe Burrow was.  THEN O was contacted and THEN he asked Busch about Burrow.  Busch and Jimmy Burrow are tight friends. 

Regarding twisting facts, I have said since Saturday, even in the podcast, I'm giving my OPINION.  But there have also been FACTS laid out that are in no way twisted.  

I did say maybe O was the answer after (and during) 2019.  I had hope, to be honest, after 2018.  I DO think losing so much all at once was tough to overcome.  

But I also can see O instantly started resting on his laurels, and if that ain't obvious to you, IDK what to say.  The dude has been a train wreck since right after the natty.  You say you can't disagree with that Josh Pate video, but then you seemingly disagree.  Listen to the last point about O Josh Pate makes.  O has an attitude and is carrying baggage you can get away with when you're winning. Well 5-6 in the last 11 with embarrassing losses to FAR inferior talent ain't "winning".  And he piles it on seemingly weekly with his antics.  Nootch ain't wrong that he is starting to look like Ole Miss Orgeron.  He seems to have some serious issues.

That said, I agree we should move to the McNeese game.  
 

[COTiger]

14 hours ago, houtiger said:

Corey Raymond has ALL of the secondary this year, he is a known good coach, helped maintain the tradition of DBU.  But the secondary did not play well, and that is not on O, its on Corey Raymond.

 

I disagree.  The majority of the poor performance of the secondary falls on the PLAYERS!!!

[Fishhead]

1 minute ago, COTiger said:

I disagree.  The majority of the poor performance of the secondary falls on the PLAYERS!!!

I think it's a mixture.  Raymond does have culpability though IMO. 

Players that we have back there for safety are: 

Jay Ward
Major Burns
Jordan Toles
Todd Harris
IDK who else that actually played Saturday
Sage Ryan
Matthew Langlois

Ward can play and he's proven it.  UCLA didn't score with him in the game, but he's 175 lbs.  Burns isn't any bigger from looks, maybe 180-185.  Burns doesn't appear physical at all...look at his tackle attempt on the 75 yd TD play. 

The coaches named those two starters. 

Toles just doesn't have the speed.  He's proven that over the past couple years. 
IDK what to say about Harris.  5th year SR, was pretty good until his injury in game 1 2019, and either lost a step or is still playing scared.  

Ryan and Langlois are true freshman, but I expect them to eventually take over.  Problem is, like half the roster, they're hurt to start the season. 

 

It's up to the coaches to start the best players.  In that regard, maybe you're right...it's not Raymond.  The best players may be the two frosh, but they were injured.  I'd say Burns and Harris are about equal.  Toles is just not as good as Ward. 

[COTiger]

Historically we have been known as DBU.  Is that no longer the case?  With the exception of Stingley, I'm beginning to think so.

[Fishhead]

3 minutes ago, COTiger said:

Historically we have been known as DBU.  Is that no longer the case?  With the exception of Stingley, I'm beginning to think so.

Ricks is at least as good as Stingley.   Funny thing is, and I know they'd never do this, but I think Sting should be playing safety right now.
Let's see what Ryan and Langlois look like 

 

[COTiger]

Did Ricks start last year?

[Fishhead]

20 minutes ago, COTiger said:

Did Ricks start last year?

Yes, and led the team (possibly the conference) in INTs.  Two pick 6s

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, Fishhead said:

Ricks is at least as good as Stingley.

 

yep, i’m screenshotting this one