Pitch Types (for Dachsie) and Philosophy (for Big T)

[Fishhead]

If you can locate the fastball perfectly low in the zone but on the outside black, yeah. Otherwise,  the 0-2 pitch ought to hit dirt. 

Alex Lange made a career doing just that

[Big T]

42 minutes ago, Hatchertiger said:

What makes a pitcher dangerous regardless of velocity is if they can locate their fastball AND throw their off speed for a strike.   

Exactly,  this is what nootch is missing. Throwing balls at people's ankles isn't going to get it done.

[Fishhead]

17 minutes ago, Big T said:

Exactly,  this is what nootch is missing. Throwing balls at people's ankles isn't going to get it done.

I think Nootch knows this very well, but also realizes a college pitcher able to do both is EXTREMELY rare.  

As far as throwing at people's ankles, again, Lange struck out a BUNCH of SEC hitters bouncing the 0-2 pitch, and MANY pitchers do that.  The difference is, you have to have late break and the batter think it's another fastball...until it "drops off the table".  Lange was a master at that.

The guys coming out of high school able to do all that you're expecting...those guys don't typically wind up on a college campus.  

[Nutriaitch]

2 hours ago, Big T said:

Exactly,  this is what nootch is missing. Throwing balls at people's ankles isn't going to get it done.

no, you’re missing it. 

every pitching coach in the country will tell you to bounce one in the dirt 0-2. 

because unless you can throw 102 with 19” of run (or can Greg Maddux it into the dime sized hole in a hitter’s swing), that fastball you plan on throwing is going to land somewhere in the next county. 

want proof?

watch Hellmers throwing this past Thursday, and in the Friday game against Arkansas. 
or any time Blake Money pitches. 

Floyd is juuuuust now becoming effective as a starter.  
Why?  He learned to throw a breaking ball. 
Hess never did develop as a starter when he was here. Why? no breaking ball. people waited for his fastball and deposited it into the Diamond Deck.

want more proof?

watch Bull Durham:

Quote

Crash: “You’re pissing your whole life away!”
Nuke: “I ain’t pissing nothing away! I got a Porsche already, a 911 with a quadraphonic Blaupunkt!”
Crash: “Christ, you don’t need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt. What you need is a Curve Ball! In the Show, everybody can hit heat!”

[Big T]

3 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

He learned to throw a breaking ball. 

Show me where I said to NOT throw a breaking ball? I'll wait...

Breaking ball is fine, great even! IF they can locate it. No, throwing it in the dirt a foot before the plate is not locating it.

[Nutriaitch]

12 hours ago, Big T said:

Show me where I said to NOT throw a breaking ball? I'll wait...

Breaking ball is fine, great even! IF they can locate it. No, throwing it in the dirt a foot before the plate is not locating it.

again:

EVERY PITCHING COACH IN AMERICA teaches you to bounce one in front the plate 0-2. 

 

[Big T]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

again:

EVERY PITCHING COACH IN AMERICA teaches you to bounce one in front the plate 0-2. 

 

Whatever 

[Nutriaitch]

3 hours ago, Big T said:

Whatever 

the last thing you do )-2 is throw an actual strike.

If you're a flame thrower (Skenes), you elevate to eye level.  Ball comes in looking like a damn beach ball, but nobody can catch it.

If you're Tim Wakefield, you throw a knuckle that you hope floats somewhere near the plate and stays in the yard if they hit it.

If you're every other pitcher in history, you throw a curve that travels 59' and bottoms out.
the reason they all do it is because it's what they're taught to do.  Not just some coincidence that they all miss in same spot every batter.

 

[Big T]

Here is how I would approach LSU, I'd tell my team swing away on the 1st pitch. 90% plus it's going to be a strike.  If you put it in play great, if you miss it no worries.  I'm giving them the take sign and they will run for ages if they swing. Just stand there, look aggressive and take your walk because they will bounce 4 of them to the catcher before they put 2 more across the plate. 

[Nutriaitch]

3 minutes ago, Big T said:

Here is how I would approach LSU, I'd tell my team swing away on the 1st pitch. 90% plus it's going to be a strike.  If you put it in play great, if you miss it no worries.  I'm giving them the take sign and they will run for ages if they swing. Just stand there, look aggressive and take your walk because they will bounce 4 of them to the catcher before they put 2 more across the plate. 

would you like me list every single pitcher on the roster with more walks than K's?

I'll do it anyway:

Bryce Collins

 

now I'll go a step farther and list every pitcher who has HALF as many walks as K's

Shores
Hurd

that's it.

so tell me you don't actually watch more than an inning or so of baseball without telling me you don't actually watch the games.

[Nutriaitch]

6 minutes ago, Big T said:

Here is how I would approach LSU, I'd tell my team swing away on the 1st pitch. 90% plus it's going to be a strike.  If you put it in play great, if you miss it no worries.  I'm giving them the take sign and they will run for ages if they swing. Just stand there, look aggressive and take your walk because they will bounce 4 of them to the catcher before they put 2 more across the plate. 

hell, if you take that approach with ME on the mound, I might throw a complete game shutout.

again, there is a reason, NO team takes that approach at the plate. ever.

[Big T]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

that's it.

Because they are not using my approach.  They are swinging at that garbage. If they keep the bat on the shoulder they get the free pass instead of the k

[Nutriaitch]

15 minutes ago, Big T said:

Because they are not using my approach.  They are swinging at that garbage. If they keep the bat on the shoulder they get the free pass instead of the k

when they stop swinging at garbage, stop throwing it. 

until then, why throw anything in the zone?

[Nutriaitch]

17 minutes ago, Big T said:

Because they are not using my approach.  They are swinging at that garbage. If they keep the bat on the shoulder they get the free pass instead of the k

better yet, do you know WHY they swing at it?

 

[Nutriaitch]

36 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

better yet, do you know WHY they swing at it?

 

even better than that, tell me whose view point you want to discuss this from

Batter
Hitting Coach
Pitcher
Pitching Coach

 

 

[Big T]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

better yet, do you know WHY they swing at it?

 

Because they think it's a strike and then it drops, blah blah blah fool me once. Throw that sh*t again and I'm going to let it scoot right on to the backstop. 

 

It's crap! If they were disciplined they would know better.

[Nutriaitch]

 

9 hours ago, Big T said:

Because they think it's a strike and then it drops, blah blah blah fool me once. Throw that sh*t again and I'm going to let it scoot right on to the backstop. 

 

It's crap! If they were disciplined they would know better.

 

OK, but as a pitcher, if you're getting strike 3, the why the hell would you quit throwing it?

because someone on the internet says that they wouldn't swing?

[Fishhead]

14 hours ago, Big T said:

Here is how I would approach LSU, I'd tell my team swing away on the 1st pitch. 90% plus it's going to be a strike.  If you put it in play great, if you miss it no worries.  I'm giving them the take sign and they will run for ages if they swing. Just stand there, look aggressive and take your walk because they will bounce 4 of them to the catcher before they put 2 more across the plate. 

Honestly most (good) hitting coaches would agree on your first point. 

Your next point, to quote my cousin Vinny,  "everything that guy just said is bullsht!"

[Big T]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

 

 

OK, but as a pitcher, if you're getting strike 3, the why the hell would you quit throwing it?

because someone on the internet says that they wouldn't swing?

Correct, in your model the batter continues to swing at it, in mine they do not. The batter says " I know he is going to throw something that looks like meat but turns out to be tofu so I'm not going to swing". I agree with you, if hitters are going to be dumb and swing then hell yes, keep throwing it. I'm saying hitters should wise up and quit because #1 the ball isn't going to be there and #2 they will continue to throw it so take the walk. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, Big T said:

Correct, in your model the batter continues to swing at it,

except mine isn't a model.

the batters ARE swinging and missing.
so we strike out more than double the number of guys we walk.

and you literally started this discussion by complaining about us using this method.

1 hour ago, Big T said:

 I'm saying hitters should wise up and quit because #1 the ball isn't going to be there and #2 they will continue to throw it so take the walk. 

and as soon as they do, pitchers will quit throwing it 59' and instead use some other form of deception.

Guys with elite velocity will continue just elevating.
Guys who rely on location and movement with just find another way to get you to swing at junk.

and batters will continue to swing at junk because you have to protect on 0-2.

 

[Fishhead]

Nootch, realize you're arguing with a dude that wants to leave his mancrush hanging, all while his mancrush is the dude that throws unhittable breaking pitches for strikes while up 0-2 lol. 

And then walks off the mound glaring into the opponents dugout like a damn boss

[Fishhead]

I'm pissed about giving up walks especially after 0-2, but you're talking about a couple guys who hardly pitched until this past week. It was maddening Thursday night, I get it. 

But equally as maddening if not more is Brady Neal watching actual hit-able strike 3 curve balls go by ALL WEEKEND LONG!!!

At least guys like Tanks,  Morgan, Crews, Dugas, even Jones will foul off a few hoping the pitcher gets frustrated and makes a mistake

[Fishhead]

Seriously though, I think Big T is having an emotional response to what occurred just this past week, without looking at the whole season...or baseball history in general.  

Youtube Nolan Ryan curve ball.  You'll see him striking out guys like Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, you name it, a who's who of 80s All-Stars........

By burying an 0-2 curve ball in the dirt.  

Sure he's Nolan Ryan, but they're Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, etc....

We don't have a Nolan Ryan, and they don't have MLB All-Stars batting though. 

Burying a curve 0-2 is as old as baseball though.  You know who grooves fastballs 0-2?  Blake Money.  THAT'S maddening

[Fishhead]

 

[Fishhead]

I quit counting the bounced curve balls in that video.  When he's not bouncing a curve with 2 strikes, he's changing levels and they can't catch the 97 MPH heater at their eye level.