Coaching Changes Thread

[Herb]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:33 PM, cadillacattack said:

Definitely agree .... Mason has some solid coaching chops ... and he’s much better than many realize. Solid recruiter, good gameday motivator ( like O in that regard) 

Might be someone to consider for DC at DBU?

[LSUDad]

Arizona Football announced that Kevin Sumlin has been relieved of his duties effective immediately.

He finishes his Arizona tenure with an overall record of 9-20.

[Herb]

18 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Arizona Football announced that Kevin Sumlin has been relieved of his duties effective immediately.

He finishes his Arizona tenure with an overall record of 9-20.

I was amazed that Zona hired him in the 1st place.

He's a great position coach, a decent coordinator, but not a good Head Coach.

[Hatchertiger]

The Gus bus has been run out of town ...

https://auburn.rivals.com/news/gus-malzahn-out-after-eight-season-auburn-tigers-football

what is ur take Caddy?

[cadillacattack]

Risky move given the current environment ..... but a move had to be made. Recruiting is suffering .... and we can’t have that now can we?

 

what’s the story with Joe Brady ?

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, Hatchertiger said:

The Gus bus has been run out of town ...

https://auburn.rivals.com/news/gus-malzahn-out-after-eight-season-auburn-tigers-football

what is ur take Caddy?

The article said Gus is owed $21 million, woooaaaa.  When are colleges going to learn that a contract should be for 4 years, no more.  I think Jimbo's at A&M was crazy, 10 years at 7.5 mil a year.  I would have found a different coach.

I wonder who wants to go to Aubby and recruit against Saban year in and year out in Alabama.  O has to recruit against Saban, but not generally for the base of his team from Louisiana.  Tough gig over there.

[Hatchertiger]

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

  I think Jimbo's at A&M was crazy, 10 years at 7.5 mil a year.  

Yes and its ALL 100% guaranteed.

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, cadillacattack said:

Risky move given the current environment ..... but a move had to be made. Recruiting is suffering .... and we can’t have that now can we?

 

what’s the story with Joe Brady ?

Brady is doing well in NFL, doesn’t care for recruiting. 

Probably an NFL liter now. 

41 minutes ago, houtiger said:

  I think Jimbo's at A&M was crazy, 10 years at 7.5 mil a year.  I would have found a different coach.

he has them on brink of playoffs, and has a winning record vs the guy we paying $8.3 mil a year. 

[Nutriaitch]

8 minutes ago, Hatchertiger said:

Yes and its ALL 100% guaranteed.

we currently owe Ed more guaranteed than they owe Jimbo. 

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

we currently owe Ed more guaranteed than they owe Jimbo. 

That doesn't say Jimbo's contract is not too big.  It says someone was perhaps over generous to Ed after last year.  Jimbo has a senior laden team.  His o-line this year starts 4 seniors and their best may be a soph., plus Monde at QB is a Sr.  Their defense starts 5 seniors and 3 juniors.  It's their year to have a good year, they have the upper classmen.  How will he do next year?

Jimbo's first two years at A&M he was 9-4, then 8-5, not worth 7.5 mil a year at all.  LSU didn't pay Ed near that much his first two years, he had to earn it.

Now, I see they gave Ed a six year deal after last year.  That's on Woodward.  I would not have done it.  A four year deal is PLENTY.  In two years, we'll talk, and if you're nice and winning, I'll extend it two more years.  I would never have a coach on contract more than four years.  Too much can happen.  Ed certainly earned a big raise after last year, but not a six year deal, IMO.

[Hatchertiger]

Woodward was the AD for Jimbo and O's renegotiated contracts.

[Nutriaitch]

11 hours ago, houtiger said:

That doesn't say Jimbo's contract is not too big.  It says someone was perhaps over generous to Ed after last year. 

it’s the market  

 

 

[Fishhead]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

I couldn't care less how much the HC makes. Not my circus, not my mon(k)eys.

 

[Fishhead]

16 hours ago, cadillacattack said:

 Recruiting is suffering .... and we can’t have that now can we?

 

what’s the story with Joe Brady ?

Lol. If recruiting is your problem, Brady is not your solution. He'd be the LSU OC and making more than he currently is as Carolina's OC if he wanted to recruit

[LSUDad]

11 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

Lol. If recruiting is your problem, Brady is not your solution. He'd be the LSU OC and making more than he currently is as Carolina's OC if he wanted to recruit

Like I said, it was told to me, two things. 

Don’t know how long you keep Brady. Brady wants to be Sean Payton! 

That’s it, he’s got to move around, get experience, get back in the NFL. You don’t find many, if any professions that move around like college and Pro Football Coaches. 

 

Fish to add on recruiting, many colleges coaches hate it. Some do it cause it’s their job. Some, love that part of their jobs. 
 

A good friend of mines wife told me a story about her husband having to recruit a kid named Steve, out of Mount Olive High in Ms. The kid played QB and DB, as a Safety he intercepted 15 passes his Sr year, raising his career total to 30, which tied the state mark established by Terrell Buckley at Pascagoula High School.

My friends wife said, Steve was the best QB she had seen after the first quarter, the husband said, she was just saying that cause it was in the low 40’s that game and she was ready to leave. 
Steve was drafted out of high school in baseball, U of Fla offered him as a RB. He wanted to play QB, his mom told my coaching friend, “My baby is going to a Black College!” That was it, Steve ended up in Lorman, Ms. Steve’s Sr year playing QB, he ran for more yards than he did passing yards. 
 

With the third overall pick in the 1995 NFL Draft, the Houston Oilers and new head coach Jeff Fisher selected Steve, making him at the time the highest drafted African-American quarterback in NFL history and signing him to a seven-year contract.

Steve was shot and killed at 36 years old by his girlfriend, while he lay sleeping on a couch. RIP Air McNair. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by LSUDad

[Herb]

10 hours ago, LSUDad said:

RIP Air McNair.

That Super Bowl finish was one of the greatest ever.

[LSUDad]

Jason’s thoughts on Black Head Coaches in College Football! 
 

WHITLOCK: BLACK MATRIARCHY PLAYS SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE PLIGHT OF BLACK COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES

by JASON WHITLOCK29 minutes agoupdated 11 minutes ago

The college football world told Derek Mason, Lovie Smith and Kevin Sumlin — three of its 13 black Division I head coaches — to turn in their playbooks and leave a forwarding address for the remaining dollars left on their contracts. 

Soon, the TV opinionists, radio talking heads, college football beat writers and everyone else concerned with being on the right side of Twitter will begin the process of excoriating college football as racist. 

The excoriation will grow louder when the NFL’s Anthony Lynn joins his white brethren, Dan Quinn, Matt Patricia and Bill O’Brien, in the unemployment line. 

In recent years, when high-profile black football coaches have failed, the coroner has never really examined their body of work in search of a cause of death. It’s as if, for black head coaches, death is expected, that there’s nothing to learn. 

The prevailing wisdom among the woke is that all black problems have white solutions. Things didn’t work out for Mason at Vanderbilt, Smith at Illinois and Sumlin at Arizona because college football hasn’t hired enough black coaches.

Football is racist. Everyone knows that. The white men who coach it, organize it, fund it and select the head coaches are the modern-day Calvin Candie, the fictional Mississippi slave owner in the movie Django Unchained.

Maybe that’s all true. But I’m not sure that explains why 41 years after Wichita State made Willie Jeffries the first black man to lead a Division I football program that big-time college football has yet to produce its version of John Thompson or Nolan Richardson. 

 

Fourteen years after Illinois State University made Will Robinson D-I’s first black basketball head coach, John Thompson won a national title at Georgetown and built a dynasty that rewarded Thompson’s top assistant coach (Craig Esherick), oldest son (John Thompson III) and greatest player (Patrick Ewing) with the head coaching position. A decade later, Nolan Richardson matched Thompson’s feat, winning a national title at Arkansas and appearing in three Final Fours. Richardson’s top assistant, Mike Anderson, would later become the head coach of the Razorbacks. 

I bring all this up because I spent Sunday, Monday and Tuesday this week researching, thinking about and discussing the plight of black college football coaches. 

I’m amazed at how little information about black college football coaches is actually out there. It’s easy to find story after story complaining that college football decision-makers are racist or biased. Maybe I didn’t know where to look, but I couldn’t find a comprehensive list of the black men who have been named head football coach of a Division I school. 

I spent a day and a half compiling my own list. By my count, 49 black men have led a Division I program. Here’s a link to my full list. Check it out. Perhaps I missed someone. 

My point is everyone loves to complain about the lack of opportunity for black college football coaches. No one has actually examined what we (black men) have done with the opportunities we’ve earned and what we can learn from those successes and failures. 

When it comes to black football coaches, everyone seems to agree that white racism is the problem. 

Should we look any further? Should we explore any other potential complications?

In 41 years, 49 black men have been named head coach of a Division I program 70 times (some coaches have led multiple schools.) Nine of those men — Kevin Sumlin, David Shaw, Charlie Strong, James Franklin, Herm Edwards, Jimmy Lake, Ruffin McNeill, Randy Shannon and Karl Dorrell — have winning records. 

So who has been the most successful?

It has to be Stanford’s David Shaw, followed by Penn State’s James Franklin, and then three guys who are sidelined as head coaches — Charlie Strong (Louisville, Texas and USF), Kevin Sumlin (Houston, Texas A&M and Arizona) and Tyrone Willingham (Stanford, Notre Dame and Washington.)

Shaw is the cream of the crop. He and Franklin are the only black coaches to win a Power Five conference title. Shaw has won the PAC-12 three times. His 2015 team finished 12-2 and ranked No. 3 in the country. Franklin (2016) won the Big Ten. Only three other black coaches have won a conference title. Turner Gill (2008), Michael Haywood (2010) and Dino Babers (2015) won the Mid-American Conference.

Shaw has won 88 games in 10 years at Stanford. 

Stanford is interesting. The school has had three black coaches, all of whom would have to be considered successful. Shaw, Willingham and Denny Green, the old Minnesota Vikings coach. Willingham won 44 games at Stanford, including a 9-3 season in 2001 that landed him the Notre Dame job. 

Denny Green took over a terrible Stanford program in 1989. In his second season, he upset No. 1-ranked Notre Dame. In year three, he led the Cardinal to an 8-4 season and a second place finish in the PAC-10. He then left to become the Vikings head coach.

So why have all three of Stanford’s black football coaches succeeded? 

I have a theory. 

Stanford isn’t a football factory. It caters to rosters filled primarily with legitimate student-athletes from stable family backgrounds. Stanford football is Duke basketball. The racial makeup of the Stanford football team is a bit different from the typical football factory. 

By my rough count and estimate, Stanford’s roster is 52% white, 46% black and 2% other. 

It’s easier for black coaches to lead teams filled with kids from nuclear families. Black kids from broken homes and/or with broken-father relationships struggle to submit to the leadership of black head coaches. They respond better when the ultimate authority is white or female.

I know that sounds crazy to some of you. I know that, as a member of the media, I’m supposed to just write that white racism is the explanation for every black problem. 

But the reality is that insecurity and self-hatred are bigger problems for black male athletes. You can see it in their attraction to the Black Lives Matter movement. BLM is a cry for white love and a white solution to black problems. BLM is a plea for a white daddy to save black culture. 

For the last 60 years, black culture has been ruled by the matriarchy, and a lack of respect and belief in black men. Kids raised by single mothers and single grandmothers have little regard for black male authority figures. Their irresponsible fathers and bitter mothers give birth to a cynicism that, if left untreated, quietly haunts the child throughout adulthood. 

The culture of female dominance, leadership and worship is now the default culture of black millennials. With 75 percent of black kids born into single-parent homes, baby-mama culture — and the cynicism that goes along with it — have been imposed upon black kids from two-parent homes. In order to fit in, in order to meet “Black Twitter’s” standard of blackness, Carlton from the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air must conform to the culture of the matriarchy. 

In this era, the Atlanta politician Stacey Abrams would have a better chance of duplicating the Georgetown basketball dynasty than Big John Thompson.

In an effort to connect with modern black athletes and win the approval of black matriarchal culture, all coaches are being forced to conceal their authentic beliefs. They all have to bow at the shrine of Black Lives Matter and express adoration for George Floyd, Jacob Blake, Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, Michael Brown, etc. 

Everyone knows it’s all didley-poo. You think Nick Saban believes Michael Brown, who wrestled for control of a police officer’s gun, was a victim of racism or a victim of bad decision-making? You think Saban believes criminal suspects have the right to resist arrest?

It’s all a charade. The athletes know it. A white coach can shed a tear or two inside a team meeting and pacify his players. 

But for black coaches, the charade is much more serious. Their burden of BLM proof must rise above a reasonable doubt. Team meeting tears are not enough. They must issue bold and provocative public statements to the media denouncing whatever BLM has told them to denounce. They must pretend they live in daily fear of being killed by police. They must invite Dr. Harry Edwards or a local race-baiting equivalent to speak to their teams. 

Black coaches must prove their blackness on command. 

It’s a burden. They just want to coach football and share the values that helped them become successful. Football coaches, regardless of color, generally fit a profile. They’re stubborn, conservative, disciplined, traditional and family oriented. 

David Shaw, Kevin Sumlin, Charlie Strong, James Franklin and Herm Edwards come from similar, two-parent backgrounds. Their parents were educators or members of the military or coaches. They were raised in the patriarchal culture commonplace in the 1960s and 1970s.  

Today’s black matriarchy makes coaching more challenging for them. At Stanford, Shaw has the luxury of leading a locker room less hostile to strong black male leadership. 

That’s my theory. Feel free to reject it. I won’t be offended. Don’t you be offended when I reject the assumption that white racism totally explains the plight of black coaches. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, LSUDad said:

Jason’s thoughts on Black Head Coaches in College Football! 
 

WHITLOCK: BLACK MATRIARCHY PLAYS SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE PLIGHT OF BLACK COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES

by JASON WHITLOCK29 minutes agoupdated 11 minutes ago

 

I’m amazed at how little information about black college football coaches is actually out there.

 

on this line in particular, i have a theory. But it goes against the narrative of "whitey is racissss"

and my theory is that in the college game, we view these guys as ....... football coaches.
not BLACK football coaches. just football coaches.

if you had asked me to name the black head coaches in power 5 game, i probably would have struggled.
if you asked me to name all of the coaches in power 5, i would have named Shaw, Franklin, and Mason for sure. 
I probably would have missed Love Smith because I will probably alway shank guessing who the hell is coaching Illinois.

 

as for why they fail?
same reason vast majority of white coaches fail.

typically if a team has a coaching vacancy, they aren't in great shape. building a football team is hard work and takes time.
time is something we just don't give coaches anymore.

[LSUDad]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

 

on this line in particular, i have a theory. But it goes against the narrative of "whitey is racissss"

and my theory is that in the college game, we view these guys as ....... football coaches.
not BLACK football coaches. just football coaches.

if you had asked me to name the black head coaches in power 5 game, i probably would have struggled.
if you asked me to name all of the coaches in power 5, i would have named Shaw, Franklin, and Mason for sure. 
I probably would have missed Love Smith because I will probably alway shank guessing who the hell is coaching Illinois.

 

as for why they fail?
same reason vast majority of white coaches fail.

typically if a team has a coaching vacancy, they aren't in great shape. building a football team is hard work and takes time.
time is something we just don't give coaches anymore.

Lovie and Mason were given time. Lovie’s best season was 6-7, Ron Zook last two years there he was 7-6, we might agree, Zook wasn’t a good coach. Lovie’s 5 years, this year with 9 returning starter on offense, should have turned out better. 
 

Mason has had 7 years. After Franklins two 9-4 seasons, they thought he would be a continuation of what he had started. 
 

Franklin, Shaw, Green and a few more have done well. 
 

Mike Haywood had a short run at Miami of Ohio, till off the field got him. I saw him at a Spring Collrge Game in Tx, years back. Don’t know if he ever got back in it. 

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Jason’s thoughts on Black Head Coaches in College Football!

WHITLOCK: BLACK MATRIARCHY PLAYS SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE PLIGHT OF BLACK COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES

by JASON WHITLOCK

The college football world told Derek Mason, Lovie Smith and Kevin Sumlin — three of its 13 black Division I head coaches — to turn in their playbooks and leave a forwarding address for the remaining dollars left on their contracts.

I don't see Jason's point.  I wonder if you compared the number of generally considered successful black coaches to the number of all black coaches, and the number of generally considered successful white coaches to the number of white coaches, I think the success ratio would be similar.  You could ask is something is wrong if the number of black coaches in college football (or pro for that matter) is reflective of the percentage of black people in america, is something wrong with that?

But in general, coaching is hard and many black and white coaches are considered to not have been successful.

[houtiger]

6 minutes ago, LSUDad said:

Lovie and Mason were given time. Lovie’s best season was 6-7, Ron Zook last two years there he was 7-6, we might agree, Zook wasn’t a good coach. Lovie’s 5 years, this year with 9 returning starter on offense, should have turned out better. 
 

Mason has had 7 years. After Franklins two 9-4 seasons, they thought he would be a continuation of what he had started. 
 

Franklin, Shaw, Green and a few more have done well. 
 

Mike Haywood had a short run at Miami of Ohio, till off the field got him. I saw him at a Spring Collrge Game in Tx, years back. Don’t know if he ever got back in it. 

You also have to look at which programs accepted the black coach as head coach.  Derek Mason failed at Vandy, but everyone pretty much fails at

Vandy.  You have to look at the program they are working with, and how much support do they get from that program.

[Hatchertiger]

Sumlin had everything at his disposal at TAMU, he didn’t cut it.  

[Nutriaitch]

47 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I don't see Jason's point.  I wonder if you compared the number of generally considered successful black coaches to the number of all black coaches, and the number of generally considered successful white coaches to the number of white coaches, I think the success ratio would be similar.  You could ask is something is wrong if the number of black coaches in college football (or pro for that matter) is reflective of the percentage of black people in america, is something wrong with that?

But in general, coaching is hard and many black and white coaches are considered to not have been successful.

Percentages will be skewed because of the much smaller quantities.

 

44 minutes ago, houtiger said:

You also have to look at which programs accepted the black coach as head coach.  Derek Mason failed at Vandy, but everyone pretty much fails at

Vandy.  You have to look at the program they are working with, and how much support do they get from that program.

 

That was my point. Most schools looking to hire a coach, well there is a reason why they were looking.

Shaw is one of the most successful, but he also was able to step into a program that already had stability and did not need a complete rebuild.
Rebuilding is difficult and most coaches (regardless of color) fail at it.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Hatchertiger said:

Sumlin had everything at his disposal at TAMU, he didn’t cut it.  

 

That was a very Aggy Thing to do.

Sumlin got canned from A&M for being an 8-5 coach (record each of his last 3 years)
 

Want to guess what A&M/s historical average record is from 1982-now (first year of Jackie Sherrill should be far enough back)?
7.89 - 4.25

 

Kevin Sumlin was almost dead on their historical average.

They fired Sherman and Fran before his for being same guy he was.

[Hatchertiger]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

They fired Sherman and Fran before his for being same guy he was.

At least the Aggie’s are consistent. What makes them look bad is with Texas down the last couple of years they should be doing better.

[Fishhead]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:10 PM, Hatchertiger said:

At least the Aggie’s are consistent. What makes them look bad is with Texas down the last couple of years they should be doing better.

I mean it's very possible they make the playoffs this season...