My take on 3-3 LSU

[Fishhead]

Even with the win yesterday when LSU was either a 1.5 pt favorite or 1.5 pt underdog depending on service,  many LSU fans are livid. 

I don't know why because after the MSU game, and ESPECIALLY shortly thereafter when we realized MSU sucks, these same LSU fans figured we'd only win 2 games this year. 

We've known we're not very good since then. Why the sudden shock lol?

Here's some of what I think is responsible. Call it excuses, but there's multiple legit reasons we suck. It's not a single thing or a single coach or player. 

Here's my honest take:
O was hired as a  CEO more than a "coach".
He recruits, but he needs to replace Busch and especially *Cregg asap... which means after NSD. He has to have great assistants. 

He needs to get someone that can recruit elite OL, particularly OTs.
He needs to figure out whatever Saban and Dabo do to convince players to stay like Waddle, Devonte Smith, Etienne, e.t.c. 

Has InbredGumps and Clemson had a single opt out?? Yet we can't keep a friggin true JUNIOR wide out (Chase)

And THAT is the #1 issue imo. We simply lost the VAST majority of experienced talent. Stevens came back, but he's a tweener. Sting is the only really talented returner with experience on D.

The offense isn't 2019, but it's better than 2018. Brady was amazing, along with Burrow and the receivers being so in sync. 

Regarding coaches, people wanna see younger up and coming coaches rather than a Linehan or Pelini. Well, you get another Brady, that's awesome. But then he's gone in a year. Had we promoted him to OC he's still gone. That'll happen with any wonder kid young coach we hire.  I don't think that's going to help "build a program".

Gotta get rid of the NFLSU schtick. Get the Jimmies and Joes to stick around past their RS sophomore or junior year.  We need experienced talent at LEAST as much as elite coaching. 

That's my take. 

Geaux Tigers

 

 

 

 

[Fishhead]

Oh, and considering the youngins playing this year, playing huge roles, I would expect vast improvement in 2021 with 2022 being "the year" in this cycle. 

Offense:

Finley is doing well for a true frosh QB. He met his first high pressure situation yesterday and led a game winning TD drive. 

Arik Gilbert is a friggin weapon. 

Boutte is a phenom. It's not a stretch to compare him to frosh Chase. Koy Moore is extremely talented. 

Defense:

Nootch's man crush is elite...moreso than I thought.  He needs to chill with the taunting every time he makes a big play though. 

Prince BJ Ojulari is a stud. He has issues setting the edge but he's a monster pass rusher. 

Roy will be a monster. Wish Guillory was healthy so we could see him in action. I believe he's a badass. 

This recruiting class is so important! So far so good. I wish Sage Ryan was eligible now considering our safety play. 

If Jacoby wants to really succeed, he should put on 15 pounds and come back a LB. But with or without him, the future is bright. 

[LSUDad]

1 hour ago, Fishhead said:

 

Here's my honest take:
O was hired as a  CEO more than a "coach".
He recruits, but he needs to replace Busch and especially Grimes asap... which means after NSD. He has to have great assistants. 

I have no problem with Busch. Grimes has been gone. Cregg is the OL Coach. 
Grimes is the OC at BYU, they are 9-0 this season. 
 

I do agree with most of what you are saying. How many, since this is a free year, return. When we have a number of 18 year old players going up against Jrs and Sr’s, you feel it. We have a ton of young talent, like I said, young. 
 

Joe Brady wants to be Sean Payton, this was known when he arrived. He had to get back into the NFL, also the OC job. Payton was 37 when he got his first OC job in the NFL. Joe Brady is 31. 
 

This week aTm, they not too happy with the A$$ kicking they received last year from us. This was to be their year, from what they were saying. They returned a bunch from last year. 8 on offense and 9 on defense. Only losing 21 lettermen, while returning 72. As for us, we lost around 30, returning around 40. 
 

The early line has aTm favored by 12.5 points. ATm is ranked #5. 
 

Im still up in N Ga., the folks here really thought the Saints without Drew, was going to be a win for them. 
Shocker right! 

UGA had a tough one Saturday. Moo U gave them a fight. They too thought MooU was an easy win, real easy. 

[Fishhead]

I have a YUGE problem with the play at safety. 

And I meant Cregg. 

Or whomever is responsible for the horrible recruiting of OL.  Liam Shanahan has no business being a starting center. I'm sure he's a great kid, obviously smart as hell. But in a previous podcast I mentioned... it's akin to Andrew Hatch starting at QB for LSU. Great kid, really smart. Not an sec talent. 

Dad, I know you never have a problem with any coaches, I know you know a lot of them.  But when we see what we're seeing, who do you blame?

Now if we didn't lose 3 NFL starting OL to the draft, Cregg would probably look way better. But I follow recruiting. We aren't getting any elite tackles, and we aren't getting enough numbers to sustain. We always have to look for transfers. That's getting old. 

[LSUDad]

Cregg had the #1 OL last year, was awarded so. What Cregg did with Cush was nothing short of amazing. When I saw him in the Spring Game, then the Miami game, nothing short of a transformation. I watched Cush yesterday, Denver will tell you, he’ll play for a number of years. 
Lewis is now the starting center for Seattle. Pocic went down, Lewis moved in to the position and is in a spot learning. 

The only guy on the OL that has a chance is Ingram, for a draft grade. Rose if he ever gets his head straight, has untapped potential. Wire being pushed into service has done well. 57, he too needs to learn the position. 
 

The center, needs another year, but as with all, a full Spring would have helped.
 

I kept saying there was a reason Magee was starting over the rest last year, we know! 
 

As for coaches, the reason Faulk was moved is because of how the previous recruiting years were handled. Last years miss on the kid from GP North Shore, I know coaches in Tx. There was no was we were getting him. Plus a major head case. A number of misses in previous years along with last year, sealed his fate. 
 

Busch and the staff has the #1 and #2 ranked safeties coming in. Much needed. I posted a high school guy and I talked about Todd Harris, we both thought he’d be so much better. In high school he was major. But the mental may not be there. After his injuries. 
 

I often look at what we have, you know, the Jimmys and the Joes. Like I said, we have talent, it’s real young. The true freshman have really stood out, but it’s not enough. 
 

 

 

[LSUDad]

Cregg had the #1 OL last year, was awarded so. What Cregg did with Cush was nothing short of amazing. When I saw him in the Spring Game, then the Miami game, nothing short of a transformation. I watched Cush yesterday, Denver will tell you, he’ll play for a number of years. 
Lewis is now the starting center for Seattle. Pocic went down, Lewis moved in to the position and is in a spot learning. 

The only guy on the OL that has a chance is Ingram, for a draft grade. Rose if he ever gets his head straight, has untapped potential. Wire being pushed into service has done well. 57, he too needs to learn the position. 
 

The center, needs another year, but as with all, a full Spring would have helped.
 

I kept saying there was a reason Magee was starting over the rest last year, we know! 
 

As for coaches, the reason Faulk was moved is because of how the previous recruiting years were handled. Last years miss on the kid from GP North Shore, I know coaches in Tx. There was no was we were getting him. Plus a major head case. A number of misses in previous years along with last year, sealed his fate. 
 

Busch and the staff has the #1 and #2 ranked safeties coming in. Much needed. I posted a high school guy and I talked about Todd Harris, we both thought he’d be so much better. In high school he was major. But the mental may not be there. After his injuries. 
 

I often look at what we have, you know, the Jimmys and the Joes. Like I said, we have talent, it’s real young. The true freshman have really stood out, but it’s not enough. 
 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

14 hours ago, Fishhead said:

Even with the win yesterday when LSU was either a 1.5 pt favorite or 1.5 pt underdog depending on service,  many LSU fans are livid. 

I don't know why because after the MSU game, and ESPECIALLY shortly thereafter when we realized MSU sucks, these same LSU fans figured we'd only win 2 games this year. 

We've known we're not very good since then. Why the sudden shock lol?

 

Sudden?

It's built up and gotten worse every week since Mizzou.

 

 

Quote

Here's some of what I think is responsible. Call it excuses, but there's multiple legit reasons we suck. It's not a single thing or a single coach or player. 

Here's my honest take:
O was hired as a  CEO more than a "coach".
He recruits, but he needs to replace Busch and especially *Cregg asap... which means after NSD. He has to have great assistants. 

 

As said when he was hired, he is 100% dependent upon his assistants.
 

Look at his assistant hires he's had since he's been here (reminder: he inherited Aranda and Raymond)

Canada: fired after one year
Sullivan: replaced after one year
Ensminger: decent play caller (at best), but nobody actually believes he installed this offense
Linehan: 3rd downs and red zone TD's suck this year (parts of his job)
Busch: needs to bee fired
Cregg: needs to be fired
Bill Johnson: D-line under performed last year and sucks this year
Mickey Joseph: meh
McMahon: No complaints about Special teams
Kevin Faulk: jury still out on him since its year 1 (if he's responsible fr the RB rotation, i have issue there too).
Bo Pelini:  Lou Tepper would be embarrassed to field this defense (i gotta eat crow on this one)

 

take a loooooong hard look at that list and convince me Brady wasn't a complete stroke of luck.

he's 1 for 12 in hiring assistants. ok, 2 for 12 with McMahon.

 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, LSUDad said:

Cregg had the #1 OL last year, was awarded so. What Cregg did with Cush was nothing short of amazing. When I saw him in the Spring Game, then the Miami game, nothing short of a transformation. I watched Cush yesterday, Denver will tell you, he’ll play for a number of years. 
Lewis is now the starting center for Seattle. Pocic went down, Lewis moved in to the position and is in a spot learning. 

i'm becoming more and more convinced with each passing week that had more to do with Brady's offense than with Cregg. Last year's personnel didn't hurt either

Burrow's Heisman highlight reel is full of him making people miss in backfield before making a pass (or the run vs InbredGumps).
Clyde made a LOT of money with his patented spin move in backfield too.
 

[LSUDad]

We have a few of OL on Pro teams as of late. For years we have added nothing there. OL at times can be hit or miss. We have missed on a number over the years. 
To add, off the field adds to the problems. Then they jump into the NFL. Needing them 4-5 years helps. 

[Hatchertiger]

Hate excuses but here are the facts.  We tied an NFL records with 14 players getting drafted and I believe 20 in total to the NFL from last year's team. Four  of those players, Burrow ( ), Queen, Jefferson and Clyde are in the discussion for ROY.  Last year's Biletnikoff Award winner, starters Kary Vincent and Tyler Shelvin decide not to play as does sometimes starter Siaka Ika.  Oh and our starting QB is lost for the season, enter a true freshman who was probably hanging out at the local Sonic this time last year.  College football has become far too complicated for me to assign full or partial blame on players, scheme, coaching etc. I've never been to a single practice or broken down film after a game and I don't know what any of the calls are when I watch the game. I know a bad play when I see one though.  That said, I'm sure all of them shoulder at least part of the blame. However, in my view we are definitely feeling the exodus of talent from last year's team and those who don't want to play football this year.  You can's lose all that talent, leadership and experience and not feel it. It is definitely a factor.  And we all know that if this season is a trend, and I hope its not, the HC or his assistants before him will be shown the door.  Then we find another coach. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Hatchertiger

[LSUDad]

59 minutes ago, Hatchertiger said:

Hate excuses but here are the facts.  We tied an NFL records with 14 players getting drafted and I believe 20 in total to the NFL from last year's team. Four  of those players, Burrow ( ), Queen, Jefferson and Clyde are in the discussion for ROY.  Last year's Biletnikoff Award winner, starters Kary Vincent and Tyler Shelvin decide not to play as does sometimes starter Siaka Ika.  Oh and our starting QB is lost for the season, enter a true freshman who was probably hanging out at the local Sonic this time last year.  College football has become far too complicated for me to assign full or partial blame on players, scheme, coaching etc. I've never been to a single practice or broken down film after a game and I don't know what any of the calls are when I watch the game. I know a bad play when I see one though.  That said, I'm sure all of them shoulder at least part of the game. However, in my view we are definitely feeling the exodus of talent from last year's team and those who don't want to play football this year.  You can's lose all that talent, leadership and experience and not feel it. It is definitely a factor.  And we all know that if this season is a trend, and I hope its not, the HC or his assistants before him will be shown the door.  Then we find another coach. 

As with last years perfect storm for wins, this year is a perfect storm for losses. 

[Fishhead]

9 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Cregg had the #1 OL last year, was awarded so. What Cregg did with Cush was nothing short of amazing. When I saw him in the Spring Game, then the Miami game, nothing short of a transformation. I watched Cush yesterday, Denver will tell you, he’ll play for a number of years. 
Lewis is now the starting center for Seattle. Pocic went down, Lewis moved in to the position and is in a spot learning. 

The only guy on the OL that has a chance is Ingram, for a draft grade. Rose if he ever gets his head straight, has untapped potential. Wire being pushed into service has done well. 57, he too needs to learn the position. 
 

The center, needs another year, but as with all, a full Spring would have helped.
 

I kept saying there was a reason Magee was starting over the rest last year, we know! 
 

As for coaches, the reason Faulk was moved is because of how the previous recruiting years were handled. Last years miss on the kid from GP North Shore, I know coaches in Tx. There was no was we were getting him. Plus a major head case. A number of misses in previous years along with last year, sealed his fate. 
 

Busch and the staff has the #1 and #2 ranked safeties coming in. Much needed. I posted a high school guy and I talked about Todd Harris, we both thought he’d be so much better. In high school he was major. But the mental may not be there. After his injuries. 
 

I often look at what we have, you know, the Jimmys and the Joes. Like I said, we have talent, it’s real young. The true freshman have really stood out, but it’s not enough. 
 

 

 

You talking about last year's OL.

Cregg brought none of those guys in. The ones we've brought in lately ain't cutting. 

Talking about 57 needing to learn the position... he's in year 3. Who's responsible for him learning the position? Shanahan needs another year? He needs another 30 pounds and a lot more strength, but that's not his fault. He's an Ivy League level talent and we've done so poorly recruiting OL he had to be brought in. 

As for safeties, Sage Ryan will be nickel at LSU. But that's not the point. Where's the stud safeties from 2 classes ago? Because the safety room is weak as can be this year. 

We should be signing 4-5 OL every season. 

My recruiting strategy would be to sign a full starting 22 every class. Literally. Sign a QB, an RB, a TE, 3 WRs, and 5 OL.  That's a starting offense. Do the  same on D.

That leaves you 3 spots to go after a couple big fish or every couple years get a punter and PK guy. 

Instead we get too many at one position at a time and have gaping holes elsewhere. 

That's on O though

[Fishhead]

7 hours ago, Hatchertiger said:

Hate excuses but here are the facts.  We tied an NFL records with 14 players getting drafted and I believe 20 in total to the NFL from last year's team. Four  of those players, Burrow ( ), Queen, Jefferson and Clyde are in the discussion for ROY.  Last year's Biletnikoff Award winner, starters Kary Vincent and Tyler Shelvin decide not to play as does sometimes starter Siaka Ika.  Oh and our starting QB is lost for the season, enter a true freshman who was probably hanging out at the local Sonic this time last year.  College football has become far too complicated for me to assign full or partial blame on players, scheme, coaching etc. I've never been to a single practice or broken down film after a game and I don't know what any of the calls are when I watch the game. I know a bad play when I see one though.  That said, I'm sure all of them shoulder at least part of the blame. However, in my view we are definitely feeling the exodus of talent from last year's team and those who don't want to play football this year.  You can's lose all that talent, leadership and experience and not feel it. It is definitely a factor.  And we all know that if this season is a trend, and I hope its not, the HC or his assistants before him will be shown the door.  Then we find another coach. 

Hatch always says things I wanna say better than I can say em

[LSUDad]

11 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Cregg had the #1 OL last year, was awarded so. What Cregg did with Cush was nothing short of amazing. When I saw him in the Spring Game, then the Miami game, nothing short of a transformation. I watched Cush yesterday, Denver will tell you, he’ll play for a number of years. 
Lewis is now the starting center for Seattle. Pocic went down, Lewis moved in to the position and is in a spot learning. 

The only guy on the OL that has a chance is Ingram, for a draft grade. Rose if he ever gets his head straight, has untapped potential. Wire being pushed into service has done well. 57, he too needs to learn the position. 
 

The center, needs another year, but as with all, a full Spring would have helped.
 

I kept saying there was a reason Magee was starting over the rest last year, we know! 
 

As for coaches, the reason Faulk was moved is because of how the previous recruiting years were handled. Last years miss on the kid from GP North Shore, I know coaches in Tx. There was no was we were getting him. Plus a major head case. A number of misses in previous years along with last year, sealed his fate. 
 

Busch and the staff has the #1 and #2 ranked safeties coming in. Much needed. I posted a high school guy and I talked about Todd Harris, we both thought he’d be so much better. In high school he was major. But the mental may not be there. After his injuries. 
 

I often look at what we have, you know, the Jimmys and the Joes. Like I said, we have talent, it’s real young. The true freshman have really stood out, but it’s not enough. 
 

 

 

Todd must have read my post. 
He too talks about the Center, needing another year. 
He also steals my line about the Jimmys and the Joes. 
I was leaving to head somewhere, so I didn’t go into much detail. But Todd did get into something I want to talk about, the LB position. If we didn’t have Bo bring in Cox, how would we be. Who was the LB coach last year, who recruited them? 
Remember when Chief left, what was folks saying about we had more TE’s than LB’s? 
 

I agree Fish with what you want in a recruiting class. 
 

Too many things hit this class hard, Graduation, leaving early, opting out, off the field, the list goes on. 
 

Todd McClure does a little talking on LSU’s problems. Cut to the 2:08:00 mark. He was on way after I made my post. So I was driving when I listened to what he had to say. 
 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by LSUDad

[houtiger]

Speaking of safeties, Todd Harris looks like he is getting over his tentativeness earlier this year.  Not sure if he lost a step, but he has brought some wood lately. 

Another thing that hurt us a while back was losing Kelvin Joseph to UK.  Joseph starts at safety for UK, but he's still a bit of a head case.  I saw the head coach at UK and they asked him about Joseph's play, and he was more frank than I thought he would be, but he said Joseph is real talented and makes some great plays, but he needs to play the system, know where he is supposed to be and not free lance so much.  The coach also said Joseph playing on the scout team last year did not help him, there is no substitute for actual game speed experience.  I watched an interview with Joseph from a few weeks ago, he's pretty cocky.  His loss didn't hurt us last year, but I think it hurt us this year.

[Nutriaitch]

7 hours ago, houtiger said:

Speaking of safeties, Todd Harris looks like he is getting over his tentativeness earlier this year.  Not sure if he lost a step, but he has brought some wood lately. 

Another thing that hurt us a while back was losing Kelvin Joseph to UK.  Joseph starts at safety for UK, but he's still a bit of a head case.  I saw the head coach at UK and they asked him about Joseph's play, and he was more frank than I thought he would be, but he said Joseph is real talented and makes some great plays, but he needs to play the system, know where he is supposed to be and not free lance so much.  The coach also said Joseph playing on the scout team last year did not help him, there is no substitute for actual game speed experience.  I watched an interview with Joseph from a few weeks ago, he's pretty cocky.  His loss didn't hurt us last year, but I think it hurt us this year.

i haven't seen him this year, so this comment is based purely on your quote:

 

if he's a head case that doesn't always know where he's supposed to be, then he would fit right in with us.
wouldn't help much since we already have several safeties that fit that exact description.

[Nutriaitch]

10 hours ago, Fishhead said:

You talking about last year's OL.

Cregg brought none of those guys in. The ones we've brought in lately ain't cutting. 

Talking about 57 needing to learn the position... he's in year 3. Who's responsible for him learning the position? Shanahan needs another year? He needs another 30 pounds and a lot more strength, but that's not his fault. He's an Ivy League level talent and we've done so poorly recruiting OL he had to be brought in. 

 

4 of these 5 got a hefty amount of playing time last year, so it ain't inexperience either.

Dare basically was a starter since Charles took half a year off (coaches decision) in '19
Big Ed played multiple series every game (including damn near entire Peach Bowl.
57 is out of position, but he played a ton last year also.
Deculus was a starter all year.

[Nutriaitch]

10 hours ago, Fishhead said:

We should be signing 4-5 OL every season. 

 

We've signed 5 once since O has been here.

Twice we signed only 3.  So far this year we have ONE online commit.

 

"expert recruiter"

 

10 hours ago, Fishhead said:

That's on O though

 

this whole shyte show is.

 

 

 

[Hatchertiger]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:01 PM, Hatchertiger said:

Hate excuses but here are the facts.  We tied an NFL records with 14 players getting drafted and I believe 20 in total to the NFL from last year's team. Four  of those players, Burrow ( ), Queen, Jefferson and Clyde are in the discussion for ROY.  Last year's Biletnikoff Award winner, starters Kary Vincent and Tyler Shelvin decide not to play as does sometimes starter Siaka Ika.  Oh and our starting QB is lost for the season, enter a true freshman who was probably hanging out at the local Sonic this time last year.  College football has become far too complicated for me to assign full or partial blame on players, scheme, coaching etc. I've never been to a single practice or broken down film after a game and I don't know what any of the calls are when I watch the game. I know a bad play when I see one though.  That said, I'm sure all of them shoulder at least part of the blame. However, in my view we are definitely feeling the exodus of talent from last year's team and those who don't want to play football this year.  You can's lose all that talent, leadership and experience and not feel it. It is definitely a factor.  And we all know that if this season is a trend, and I hope its not, the HC or his assistants before him will be shown the door.  Then we find another coach. 

Add to that our best offensive player quitting the week before the InbredGumps game and after being given permission to give the team a speech about sticking with the season

[Herb]

[Nutriaitch]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:01 PM, Hatchertiger said:

Hate excuses but here are the facts.  We tied an NFL records with 14 players getting drafted

want to guess how many games that team we tied lost the next year?

2

 

excuses are didley-poo. we SUCK. 

[Hatchertiger]

25 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

 

we SUCK. 

Yes and as I pointed out if we continue to, we get a new coach. I don’t think anyone is debating that.

[Nutriaitch]

3 hours ago, Hatchertiger said:

Yes and as I pointed out if we continue to, we get a new coach. I don’t think anyone is debating that.

my apologies Hatch, just gets frustrating seeing people constantly trying to justify what we seeing this year. 

not saying that’s what you were doing. 

[Hatchertiger]

It’s all good Nootch! I love your passion for LSU  

[Fishhead]

15 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

my apologies Hatch, just gets frustrating seeing people constantly trying to justify what we seeing this year. 

not saying that’s what you were doing. 

 

1 hour ago, Hatchertiger said:

It’s all good Nootch! I love your passion for LSU  

The reasons for this showing are multiple. 

Did we lose the starting QB the next season? Did we have the copped outs...i mean opt outs?

This season is a shitshow. It's Murphy's law in action. If it can go wrong it will. And has. Like I mentioned in the most recent podcast, I'm focused on 2021 and 2022 at this point.  

There are few positives at this point, but I'm liking 23 and 3 a lot these last couple games. Sting finally got to show why he'd be a first rounder if he were eligible... he was truly shutdown Saturday. The defense as a whole has looked better the last 3 games, if you only count the beginning of the Auburn game lol. Point is I'm seeing improvement.

Offense is just bad without Myles and with this crap OL. 57 is straight up a liability.  That won't improve with what we currently have healthy on the roster and on the staff. Period.