Things Coach O is doing better than Les...

[houtiger]

10 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

ok, keep Cam. 

so 1 guy in 10 years?

where is this plethora of available “team transforming” transfer QBs that Les didn’t get?

and still not sure why Auburn can count a 4* signed from a Juco after he got in legal trouble at an SEC school, but LSU can’t count a 4* signed from a Juco after he got in trouble at an SEC school. 

Cam was an upper classman, a junior with 2 years to play, and he was brought in to upgrade the position and win it right now if he could (he did).

Mett was a soph. when he came to LSU with 3 years to play, and he was brought in for the future.  He was NOT given a chance to win the job immediately that I ever saw.  He didn't get a snap his first year at LSU.  As I have said, his recruitment to LSU was more like a high school QB coming in for the future, than an upper classman coming in to upgrade the position.

Not the same thing at all.  

Should Mett have played his soph year at LSU?  I don't know and neither do you.  I just saw him throw a couple of passes in the spring game, and I know he was the only QB on the team that could have completed one of those balls.  Lee nor Jefferson would have attempted the throw IMO.

Regarding the team transforming QB's, I posted 2 links above to lists of them.

[Fishhead]

How about this stat? 
LSU snaps with 25+ left on play clock 

2017 (13 games): 52 
2018 (7 games): 87 

That 87? More than Kentucky, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Texas A&M, and Tennessee combined.

Credit Cody Worsham

 

I'd LOVE to see that against Miles' years

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Cam was an upper classman, a junior with 2 years to play, and he was brought in to upgrade the position and win it right now if he could (he did).

Mett was a soph. when he came to LSU with 3 years to play, and he was brought in for the future.  He was NOT given a chance to win the job immediately that I ever saw.  He didn't get a snap his first year at LSU.  As I have said, his recruitment to LSU was more like a high school QB coming in for the future, than an upper classman coming in to upgrade the position.

Not the same thing at all.  

Should Mett have played his soph year at LSU?  I don't know and neither do you.  I just saw him throw a couple of passes in the spring game, and I know he was the only QB on the team that could have completed one of those balls.  Lee nor Jefferson would have attempted the throw IMO.

Regarding the team transforming QB's, I posted 2 links above to lists of them.

you linked the exact same article twice. 

yes two different publications, but they are word for word the exact same article by the exact same author on the exact same date. 

and it’s hard for me to take you serious if you are bringing up guys from the 70s and 80s into this discussion.  I mean really, your list includes Troy Aikman leaving a Barry Switzer coached OU.

but i’ll go ahead and humor your list. 

1st, the VAST majority of them had to sit a year. which eliminates them from this discussion. 

so we left with Cam. who i remind you again very nearly took down two SEC schools in recruiting violations at the same time. No thank you. 

Jake Coker who under no circumstances has ever been listed as the reason Inbred Gumps won anything. Take him off that Inbred Gumps team and they still more than likely win. 

Nick Marshall. seriously? We had Mett as returning Senior with a 4* freshman right behind him.

and Russell Wilson who had actually quit college football to play pro baseball. 

so i’m asking you to give a name of guy that can legitimately be considered as us just straight up missing a Joe Burrow type guy somewhere between the years 2008 (really, ‘09) and 2016.  according to your own criteria, he had to be eligible to “immediately contend to be the starter”

 

if this is your list, then i stand very, very, very FIRM in my stance that the guy you wanted us to land didn’t even exist. 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

28 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

 

Credit Cody Worsham

 

I'd LOVE to see that against Miles' years

 

note to Hou:

THIS is how you do it. (god i hate giving Fish credit)

[houtiger]

3 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

you linked the exact same article twice. 

yes two different publications, but they are word for word the exact same article by the exact same author on the exact same date. 

and it’s hard for me to take you serious if you are bringing up guys from the 70s and 80s into this discussion.  I mean really, your list includes Troy Aikman leaving a Barry Switzer coached OU.

but i’ll go ahead and humor your list. 

1st, the VAST majority of them had to sit a year. which eliminates them from this discussion. 

so we left with Cam. who i remind you again very nearly took down two SEC schools in recruiting violations at the same time. No thank you. 

Jake Coker who under no circumstances has ever been listed as the reason Inbred Gumps won anything. Take him off that Inbred Gumps team and they still more than likely win. 

Nick Marshall. seriously? We had Mett as returning Senior with a 4* freshman right behind him.

and Russell Wilson who had actually quit college football to play pro baseball. 

so i’m asking you to give a name of guy that can legitimately be considered as us just straight up missing a Joe Burrow type guy somewhere between the years 2008 (really, ‘09) and 2016.  according to your own criteria, he had to be eligible to “immediately contend to be the starter”

 

if this is your list, then i stand very, very, very FIRM in my stance that the guy you wanted us to land didn’t even exist. 

Joe Burrow.  O saw the position was not adequate and he upgraded it, Les accepted what he had and only added depth.  The transfers Les brought in did not help us, except Mett, and I view him more like recruiting a high school guy with 3 years to play, except from an experience standpoint he did start for a year in JC and took his team to the nat. championship game, which should have put him in the discussion for playing time, but it didn't.

I understand it is not the easiest thing to do to get a quality transfer that can come in and help right away.  I also know that it DOES HAPPEN, if you look for it and are willing to give a transfer the opportunity to win the job.  Of course, you have to have the motivation to go out and look, and that motivation is the realization that you are weak at the position.  Les never seemed to recognize that, so he didn't try to upgrade at the position.  The other side of the equation is if he looked, would a top QB have been any more likely to come to LSU to play Les's offense that your high school recruits.  The only 5* QB recruit we signed was Russell Sheppard, and he left as a good wide receiver.

Everyone knows we had very good to great talent in most of the Miles years.  Why didn't we win more titles?  At least the West Div.  Everybody knows the answer is the Miles team suffered from lack of QB efficiency.  Yes, Les brought some 4* QB's to town, and we know that some 4* make it at the next level, and some don't, and LSU had a long list of guys that didn't make it.  

Les never fixed it, I think his offense was part of the problem and he refused to change.

O faced it, got one transfer, and he succeeded with Burrow.  I think O has done better.  O can only be judged over a short time so far, so the end of the story is not written yet.  But so far, O has shown a better result at fixing his QB problem that was left over from Les and compounded by Alleva's wiff on cleanly taking care of the Miles problem at the end of 2015 when a new coach could have started from a clean slate with an opportunity to bring in a new OC and recruit a top QB, but Joe A. blew that and cost LSU a year getting started on the process.  Then O created a problem for himself with the Canada situation, and Canada was not out recruiting a QB for LSU with any earnestness, so we wiffed again.  That left O with fewer options, but he drew on the option he had and came out a winner.  Luck?  Necessity?  Probably some of both.  But a win is a win.

[Nutriaitch]

so now that you can’t name a single transfer to fit the criteria you came up with you change the argument?

QB development was absolute dogshit under Miles.

right now, it’s still an unknown under O and therefore can’t be graded just yet. he may be turning Brennan into 2nd coming of Drew Brees. Or he may be 2nd coming of Brian Sparacino. Most likely somewhere in the vast ocean between this two. We won’t know until we see it.

O landed a transfer, for which he deserves a ton of credit.

but to say Les didn’t even attempt to find better for the spot is simply inaccurate. 

he landed multiple 4* guys.  those guys never panned out. Which is a development issue. Not a “go out and get them” issue.  

 

[Fishhead]

Y'all funny.  Hou, he's killed ya in this one. 

Miles had success recruiting QBs, in developing them, not so much. He got Mett and Etling.

We'll have to see how well O and company develop QBs. So far, no good since we had to scramble for a transfer. Great job getting the one they got...after Urban developed him. 

As to why miles didn't win more titles, it's this a real question?? The answer resides in Tuscaloosa and maybe Orgeron beats him this season. But miles did better against saban than anyone besides Hugh Freeze, who cheated his ass off. 

 

 

[Hatchertiger]

3 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

  Hugh Freeze, who cheated his ass off.

"One for the recruit, one for my .... um .... 'escort' "

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

so now that you can’t name a single transfer to fit the criteria you came up with you change the argument?

QB development was absolute dogshit under Miles.

right now, it’s still an unknown under O and therefore can’t be graded just yet. he may be turning Brennan into 2nd coming of Drew Brees. Or he may be 2nd coming of Brian Sparacino. Most likely somewhere in the vast ocean between this two. We won’t know until we see it.

O landed a transfer, for which he deserves a ton of credit.

but to say Les didn’t even attempt to find better for the spot is simply inaccurate. 

he landed multiple 4* guys.  those guys never panned out. Which is a development issue. Not a “go out and get them” issue.  

I have not changed the criteria.  I said Les was a players coach and he sat pat with them, especially his QB's, and he did not go out and try to get a QB to upgrade the position.  O did go out and get a transfer that upgraded the position, and after the spring game when I think we were all underwhelmed with the QB play, I am glad that O did.

I'll give you another transfer, Shea Patterson moved from Ole Piss to Mich., won the starting job and has Michigan at 6 - 1, and ranked #6 in the nation right now.

Why is he at Michigan?  Harbaugh thought he would upgrade the position.  He was not brought in for depth, he competed for the starting job immediately and won it.

Here's Patteson's stats this year:

Junior (2018)
• Twice named Offensive Player of the Week for his performances at Northwestern and against Wisconsin
• In his first start as a Wolverine at Notre Dame (Sept. 1), completed 20-of-30 pass attempts for 227 yards, including a 52-yard connection with Nico Collins
• In his home debut against Western Michigan (Sept. 8), completed 12-of-17 passes and threw three touchdowns in the win
• Connected on 14-of-18 pass attempts for 237 yards and three touchdowns against SMU (Sept.15) and also rushed six times for 20 yards
• Completed 15-of-22 pass attempts against Nebraska (Sept. 22) for 120 yards with one touchdown
• Completed 15-of-24 pass attempts for 196 yards at Northwestern (Sept. 29) and added seven carries for 31 total yards
• Completed 19-of-27 pass attempts for 282 yards, his best total as a Wolverine, and also threw for three touchdowns against Maryland (Oct. 6)
• Connected on 14-of-21 pass attempts and added nine carries for 90 yards against Wisconsin (Oct. 13)
• His 81-yard rush was the second-longest by any Michigan quarterback (Denard Robinson, 87 yards vs. Notre Dame in 2010), and later added his first rushing score as a Wolverine on a seven-yard run

Les brings in Hatch, transfer from Harvard who was out of football while he was on his mormon mission, because he was a friend of Crowton from his Utah days.  You think Les was out there looking for a top QB to improve the position?  I don't.  It was a typical friendly Les "family deal" with a friend of a friend.  Same way we got Etling, friend of Cam Cameron (although Etling worked out, somewhat).  Did anyone think Hatch was going to lead us to the promised land with his resume, no, it would have been one of the biggest upsets ever.

Here is how W. Va. has used a string of transfer QB's in recent years, and they are after Clemson's QB who announced he will transfer, they want him for next season:

Bryant led Clemson to the College Football Playoff last season and has started all four games for the Tigers in 2018 before being benched last weekend. He was the starter last year and threw for 2,802 yards with 13 touchdowns and eight interceptions.

The South Carolina native is now a free agent, so to speak, and big name schools and coaches will soon start to make their pitches to Bryant.

Enter Dana Holgorsen and the West Virginia Mountaineers.

WVU has a Heisman contender at quarterback this season with the previously mentioned Will Grier. But after the current campaign comes to a close, Grier will be playing football on Sunday.

Holgorsen has a three-star, true-freshman quarterback in Trey Lowe and Miami University transfer Jack Allison on the roster. Both of them could be competing for that starting spot when the fall of 2019 rolls around.

Allison was a four-star recruit coming out of Florida. According to ESPN, he was the sixth ranked pocket passer quarterback, behind Haskins and K.J. Costello of Stanford.

Lowe has not seen any playing time yet and Allison has played in limited amounts, all in garbage time. He has completed one pass for four yards and thrown an interception.

Skyler Howard transferred to WVU from Riverside City College in California in 2014. The next year, he was the starting quarterback. In 30 games played, he threw for 7,302 yards and 60 touchdowns. He also rushed for 1,105 yards and 16 touchdowns.

Before Howard, Clint Trickett transferred into WVU from Florida State. As a senior in 2014, Trickett started 11 games, throwing for 3,285 yards and 10 TDs.

Most recently, and most notably, was the transfer of Grier from Florida to West Virginia in 2016.

Not only is WVU a successful landing spot for quarterbacks who are changing schools, but in other positions as well. All three White brothers- Kevin, Kyzir, and Ka’Raun- transferred in from community college. Defensive linemen Kenny Bigelow and Jabrill Robinson are grad transfers; Ezekiel Rose is another community college transfer. Former running backs Rushell Shell and Justin Crawford transferred to WVU.

http://www.thedaonline.com/sports/kelly-bryant-the-next-great-wvu-transfer-quarterback/article_e1957e20-c652-11e8-9003-0378cab69e41.html

It looks like W. Va. has made a living on transfer QB's, and they typically are a top 25 team, currently #13 with a Heisman candidate transfer starter.

They are out there, they have been out there.  Les picked up a few, mostly on the family plan, for depth.  Etling was the surprise, Les thought Harris was his guy.

[houtiger]

56 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

Y'all funny.  Hou, he's killed ya in this one. 

Miles had success recruiting QBs, in developing them, not so much. He got Mett and Etling.

We'll have to see how well O and company develop QBs. So far, no good since we had to scramble for a transfer. Great job getting the one they got...after Urban developed him. 

As to why miles didn't win more titles, it's this a real question?? The answer resides in Tuscaloosa and maybe Orgeron beats him this season. But miles did better against saban than anyone besides Hugh Freeze, who cheated his ass off. 

Les had success early in Saban's tenure with Inbred Gumps.  LSU was ahead, Inbred Gumps had to be rebuilt after the Schula era.  After Saban got his program up and running, he owned Les.  In the later Miles years, we could see we were not really competitive, and much of that was a one dimensional offense and ineffectiveness at QB.  Look at the post I just put up, W. Va. has used the transfer market effectively for years.  Les tried, he just wasn't effective.  O has tried once, and it is effective.

I guess there are no transfer successes if you don't really want to go look for them.  

[Nutriaitch]

this is really a simple question. 

and ive asked it multiple times now. 

who is the transfer QB that Les did not get. from 2008-2016?

Patterson was after Les got fired. Also wasn’t allowed to transfer in conference.

Grier was suspended for drug issues in 2015. also wasn’t allowed to transfer within the conference. 

you’ve already tried using Troy Aikman. now you scraping up guys from Riverside Community College that haven’t even played outside of garbage time.

Les landed QBs. 

couldnt coach or develop them to save his life. But he landed a good amount of QBs that were respected and highly recruited before they got here. 

so you saying he didn’t “get them” is factually inaccurate.

that the ones he did get all played like ahit is a completely different discussion.  and actually proves that chances are even Baker Mayfield would have sucked at LSU. 

[Nutriaitch]

9 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Les had success early in Saban's tenure with Inbred Gumps.  LSU was ahead, Inbred Gumps had to be rebuilt after the Schula era.  After Saban got his program up and running, he owned Les.  In the later Miles years, we could see we were not really competitive, and much of that was a one dimensional offense and ineffectiveness at QB.  Look at the post I just put up, W. Va. has used the transfer market effectively for years.  Les tried, he just wasn't effective.  O has tried once, and it is effective.

I guess there are no transfer successes if you don't really want to go look for them.  

 

he beat Nick in his 4th and 5th seasons in Tuscaloosa.  Not many Shula era guys on those teams. 

 

Ive looked for them. 

i haven’t found them, you haven’t named them. 

where are they?

[Nutriaitch]

13 minutes ago, houtiger said:

  In the later Miles years, we could see we were not really competitive  

Les’ teams scored more against Saban in EACH of his last 4 games than O’s teams have in his two games COMBINED. 

oh and Les’ last two games against them were lost by fewer combined points than O’s two were. 

 

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Les had success early in Saban's tenure with Inbred Gumps.  LSU was ahead, Inbred Gumps had to be rebuilt after the Schula era.  After Saban got his program up and running, he owned Les.  In the later Miles years, we could see we were not really competitive, and much of that was a one dimensional offense and ineffectiveness at QB.  Look at the post I just put up, W. Va. has used the transfer market effectively for years.  Les tried, he just wasn't effective.  O has tried once, and it is effective.

I guess there are no transfer successes if you don't really want to go look for them.  

This would have been a better argument using Kickers than QBs.

I mean, there is definitely stuff O has done better than miles, like clock management. Kudos to him for that. 

But hanging your hat on getting transfers in positions you've failed to recruit well like qb and cb... i'm not going there. 

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, Fishhead said:

This would have been a better argument using Kickers than QBs.

I mean, there is definitely stuff O has done better than miles, like clock management. Kudos to him for that. 

But hanging your hat on getting transfers in positions you've failed to recruit well like qb and cb... i'm not going there. 

did you really just say we didn’t recruit CB well?

because i would say the list of corners that have rolled through Baton Rouge is about as impressive of a run as any school in the country has had at any one position. 

[houtiger]

4 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

who is the transfer QB that Les did not get. from 2008-2016?

We already mentioned Cam Newton at Auburn and Jake Coker at Alabama.

Ryan Mallet from Michigan to Arkansas in 2008, would have been a good get for LSU.  In 2009 and 2010 he threw for 3,600 and 3,800 yards and finished 7^th in the Heisman voting in 2010.  Mallet lost an OT game to LSU in 2009 and beat LSU in 2010.  These were Jefferson/Lee years and Mallet would have been an upgrade.

2009 Steve Threet left Michigan because he did not fit Rich Rodriguez system, after he was a starter and winner for Michigan.  He went Arizona State, where he started and won.  He retired from football after college due to concussions.

Baker Mayfield – Texas Tech to Oklahoma in 2014, where he played 3 seasons and won the Heisman his Sr. year of 2017.  First overall pick in the 2018 draft.

Robert Marve – committed to Alabama, then went to Miami.  Transferred to Purdue in 2010, sat out a year, tore his ACL twice, missed time.  His Sr. season, after the starter went 2-6, Marve started 3 games and won all of them and got Purdue into a bowl.  The kid had talent, but due to injuries things did not work out well for him.  In 2010, nobody knew he would tear his ACL 2 times.

Russell Wilson transferred from NC State to Wisconsin in 2011 and had a great season for the Badgers.  Was he a better QB than Lee and Jefferson?  Yes, he’s still in the pro’s, was a third round pick by the Seahawks.  He would have upgraded the position.  But no, we had our guys, a head case and a poor passer.

Nick Foles transferred from Michigan St. to Arizona, where he accounted for more than 10,000 passing yards and 71 total touchdowns from 2009-11. As a senior, Foles led the Pac-12 and ranked fifth nationally with 4,329 yards.  Foles plays in the NFL, just led the Eagles to a super bowl win and was super bowl MVP.

Tom Savage transferred from Rutgers to Pittsburg and had a very successful Sr. season in 2013.  He was a 4^th round pick by the Texans, played 4 years there, then with the Saints and 49ers.

In 2015 Everett Golson transferred from Notre Dame to Fla. State and led them to a 6-0 record before a concussion limited his playing time (and the desire to get their junior year QB ready for next season).  He was mentioned by us fans here at LSU, but I don’t think anything serious happened.

You had Greyson Lambert from Virginia to Georgia in 2015 and he led them to 10-3 record in Richt’s last year.  He was in and out during 2016.  The only question is “was he better than Danny Etling”?

Nathan Peterman from Tennessee to Pittsburg, had a very successful season in 2015 and 2016.  Drafted in the 5^th round by the Bills, has been in the NFL for 2 seasons.

[Nutriaitch]

Ryan Mallet? we still had Perillioux as the heir apparent when that happened. 

Russel Wilson i discussed. he quit football to play baseball. then changed his mind and came back like mid-late summer time. 

for the 78th time in this thread alone. Baker Mayfield was a WALK-ON. he did not have a single scholarship offer from a power 5 school. not 1. zero. literally every single power 5 coach in America missed on him. all of them. Would i have loved to have his production here? absolutely! but i don’t recall anyone clamoring for this guy when it happened. Didn’t have a scholly at Tech and didn’t get one immediately at OU either. 

Foles I actually forgot he was a transfer.  But again, at that time we Perrilloux was the guy at that time and hadn’t been booted yet.

 

Threet? Marve? Peterman? Gholson?

I asked for serious answers.

[Nutriaitch]

to expound a bit

Foles had a whopping 8 career pass attempts when he transferred. 

Mallett was 61/141 (43%) 892 yds 7 td and 5 picks

both transferred prior to Perrilloux’s dismissal. 

RP was 51/71 (53%) 694 yds 8 TDs and 2 picks. Just won MVP of SEC CG. 

 

our QB struggles had not even been hinted at yet at this point in time.

without the benefit of hindsight, no LSU fan was taking Mallet or Foles over what we had. 

 

[houtiger]

8 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

Ryan Mallet? we still had Perillioux as the heir apparent when that happened. 

Russel Wilson i discussed. he quit football to play baseball. then changed his mind and came back like mid-late summer time. 

for the 78th time in this thread alone. Baker Mayfield was a WALK-ON. he did not have a single scholarship offer from a power 5 school. not 1. zero. literally every single power 5 coach in America missed on him. all of them. Would i have loved to have his production here? absolutely! but i don’t recall anyone clamoring for this guy when it happened. Didn’t have a scholly at Tech and didn’t get one immediately at OU either. 

Foles I actually forgot he was a transfer.  But again, at that time we Perrilloux was the guy at that time and hadn’t been booted yet.

 

Threet? Marve? Peterman? Gholson?

I asked for serious answers.

Re: Mallet - And when Perrilloux left, we had what?  A couple of true freshman.  Mallett was drafted in the 3rd round and had a 7 year NFL career.  Perrilloux had none of that.  Who was the better QB?  Do you go by high school press clippings, or what you see when you work a guy out?

Re: Russell Wilson - Wisconsin could sign him and win the conf., but we couldn't because he came back late summer?  The question is, would he upgrade the QB position.

Re: Baker Mayfield was a walkon.  What does that have to do with the price of tea?  You work the guy out and see what he's got.  We're so big on our coaches spotting talent that we can take a 2* like Hester and get production from him, or 3* CB that make all american here.  He was out there, and we missed, whatever the reason.

Re: Foles - we had Perrilloux, and he played one game for us.  And we had little behind him.  Then Perrilloux left for Jacksonville St. and started there a couple of years, didn't get drafted and never made it in the NFL or anywhere else, and Foles is still in the NFL and just was the Super Bowl MVP.  You think Foles didn't have more talent than Perrilloux?  Could we tell that?  Did we look at him?

Re: Threet, Marve, Peterman, Gholson - They all enjoyed success at schools they transferred to, except Marve who tore his ACL twice, but prior to the tears we would have had no way to know what would happen to him.  Nobody knew Wilson would develop into a star, nor Mayfield.  That is part of the college game.  But programs with balance and passing attacks can attract passers, and good offensive coordinators can tell talent that can upgrade their team and they seek it out.  You laugh at Gholson, and yet QB guru Jimbo wanted him and he led Fla. State to 6-0 record before his concussion.  Could he have helped LSU, probably.

[houtiger]

18 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

to expound a bit

Foles had a whopping 8 career pass attempts when he transferred. 

Mallett was 61/141 (43%) 892 yds 7 td and 5 picks

both transferred prior to Perrilloux’s dismissal. 

RP was 51/71 (53%) 694 yds 8 TDs and 2 picks. Just won MVP of SEC CG. 

 

our QB struggles had not even been hinted at yet at this point in time.

without the benefit of hindsight, no LSU fan was taking Mallet or Foles over what we had. 

The point is that the FANS are not supposed to decide if we take a guy our not.  That is the coaches job, and they are well paid to do the job.  And everyone knows that late in the Miles years, LSU suffered from ineffective QB play.  We had some good teams that could have achieved more if we had a passing attack and the better teams could not load the box on defense, shut down our run, and we were dead.  That is why Miles is gone.

[Nutriaitch]

29 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Re: Mallet - And when Perrilloux left, we had what?  A couple of true freshman.  Mallett was drafted in the 3rd round and had a 7 year NFL career.  Perrilloux had none of that.  Who was the better QB?  Do you go by high school press clippings, or what you see when you work a guy out?

Re: Russell Wilson - Wisconsin could sign him and win the conf., but we couldn't because he came back late summer?  The question is, would he upgrade the QB position.

Re: Baker Mayfield was a walkon.  What does that have to do with the price of tea?  You work the guy out and see what he's got.  We're so big on our coaches spotting talent that we can take a 2* like Hester and get production from him, or 3* CB that make all american here.  He was out there, and we missed, whatever the reason.

Re: Foles - we had Perrilloux, and he played one game for us.  And we had little behind him.  Then Perrilloux left for Jacksonville St. and started there a couple of years, didn't get drafted and never made it in the NFL or anywhere else, and Foles is still in the NFL and just was the Super Bowl MVP.  You think Foles didn't have more talent than Perrilloux?  Could we tell that?  Did we look at him?

Re: Threet, Marve, Peterman, Gholson - They all enjoyed success at schools they transferred to, except Marve who tore his ACL twice, but prior to the tears we would have had no way to know what would happen to him.  Nobody knew Wilson would develop into a star, nor Mayfield.  That is part of the college game.  But programs with balance and passing attacks can attract passers, and good offensive coordinators can tell talent that can upgrade their team and they seek it out.  You laugh at Gholson, and yet QB guru Jimbo wanted him and he led Fla. State to 6-0 record before his concussion.  Could he have helped LSU, probably.

 

Foles had 8 career pass attempts. EIGHT! 

Mayfield was a guy that literally ZERO power 5 coaches in America felt was worthy of a scholarship. NONE. NOBODY. not a single individual on the planet project him to do what he ultimately did. Not even the school he actually started games for. 

Threet, Marve, Peterman, and Golson were all turnover machines. Turning it over more than they scored at their previous schools.  The answer to our turnover prone QB’s was not to go find another turnover prone QB to replace them.

This ain’t the NFL where free agents can all come in a try-out. 

You go mostly by what is on film. And the info you have on the guy to determine if he is worth looking into.

Yes we had Perilloux. The number 1 guy in his class. 

Played in Multiple games for us in ‘07. With 2 starts. One of those two starts was the SEC Championship game. 

Behind him we had a fairly highly recruited guy that redshirted the previous year. And a true freshman 4*  At that time, nobody knew they would be head cases.

going into ‘08 we looked pretty well set up at QB and had exactly zero reasons to go looking for a transfer.

Unless we’re looking to build depth. But you specifically said “immediately contend for the starter”.  Which of course eliminates your entire list outside of Wilson. Because all of them had to sit a year.  

 

as far as Wilson, the guy QUIT. that tends to make you unattractive to potential new teams. It’s why only 2 schools were even in the picture for him. 

[Herb]

Fish beat me to the clock management point.

We are also SPREADing the ball around more.

Oh...and the hurry up.

[Fishhead]

11 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

did you really just say we didn’t recruit CB well?

because i would say the list of corners that have rolled through Baton Rouge is about as impressive of a run as any school in the country has had at any one position. 

How did O do recruiting CBs this year? Follow along son. Early in the thread the transfer from Stanford was mentioned. I'm not patting O on the back for missing Surtain AND Goodrich thus leading to the stanford guy

Likewise, he didn't bring in a qb, then realized he had to have one. I mean, great job getting Burrow...I have been very vocally supportive of that. But praising him for getting a QB transfer when he had a couple years to actually land one via recruiting and failed to do so seems odd. 

[Nutriaitch]

15 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

How did O do recruiting CBs this year? Follow along son. Early in the thread the transfer from Stanford was mentioned. I'm not patting O on the back for missing Surtain AND Goodrich thus leading to the stanford guy

Likewise, he didn't bring in a qb, then realized he had to have one. I mean, great job getting Burrow...I have been very vocally supportive of that. But praising him for getting a QB transfer when he had a couple years to actually land one via recruiting and failed to do so seems odd. 

 

agreed. 

Theres lot of things O is absolutely doing better than Miles. 

getting guys on Campus is not one of those things. and was probably Miles’ strongest attribute. 

Coaching and developing QBs was easily his weakest point. 

Who’s to say that a young undeveloped Nick Foles would have amounted to anything better than Lee if the bulk of his college coaching was done by Miles & Crowton?

You bring up West Virginia and their QB success.  Do you think it’s a coincidence that guys people never heard of have success there? Or is it more likely that Dana Holgerson is a really good QB coach that turns these guys into something?

I mean Grier was nothing special at Florida. Yeah he was a starter, but now he’s in the Heisman discussion.  

[houtiger]

Nootch, you are taking advantage of hindsight.  You had to look at all these guys at the time, mostly you were looking at talent and potential.  I look at success in the NFL to see if that potential was realized, and only Mett lasted more than a year, most of ours were cut before the season.  A lot of the guys on my list had much better runs in the NFL, some are still there.  We fans thought Perrilloux was a star, but we never saw him to any extent, except the SEC championship game, and I admit, he threw one of my favorite passes at LSU, a beaut to the corner of the end zone.  But one pass and one game do not a career make.  He started at Jacksonville St., won offensive player of the year for their conference his sr. year, completed his degree eventually, but he never made an NFL roster, closest he came was the practice squad for the Giants for one year, tried the CFL and did not work out there.  If you don't look at his press clippings out of high school, who was better, Ryan or Nick Foles?

Did Hatch or Bolden or Etling sniff the NFL?  None, except Danny, got drafted in the 7th round, cut before the season.  Mett lasted 3 or 4 years, got a few starts due to injury ahead of him, career backup.

Other teams could identify the potential, bring it in, and be helped, in some cases substantially.  Not every transfer turns out to be a world beater, they probably got beat out for the starter job somewhere else.  But they had talent, and the key point is, they brought more talent to their new team in many cases, than the team had at QB on their roster.  All of the guys I cited played, started, and had success at their new team, and most went on to some success in the NFL, where only Mett did for us, and as I say, he had 3 years to play and was more like recruiting a high schooler.  Mett could look ahead and see the job would probably be his after one season, and he was right.  

Les's transfer provided depth, and Etling only got the job because Harris disappointed so badly.  Les tried mightily to play Brandon, almost to the end.

You mention LSU's failure to develop QB's and I agree.  Perhaps that is part of the reason that Les did not attract higher quality transfers.  Maybe he reached out and could not get anyone stronger to commit.

O's one reachout to Burrow is better than all of Les's reach outs, except possibly Mett, that remains to be seen.  But Joe is certainly a better runner.