Grade Coach O

[houtiger]

We have a number of years in which to evaluate Coach O. 

1)  What is your letter grade for his overall results as head coach?  A, B, C, D, F, and yes, you can use the + or -, for example, C+ or C-.   Tell us a bit about why you rated him this letter grade.

2)  Has O done better, about the same, or worse than you expected?

 

2017 record - 9 - 4 ranked #18..........................2018 recruiting class national rank #15 (Terrace Marshall)

2018 record - 10 - 3 ranked #6..........................2019 recruiting class national rank #5 (Derek Stingley)

2019 record - 15 - 0 ranked #1..........................2020 recruiting class national rank #4 (Eli Ricks, Kayshon Boutte)

2020 record - 5 - 5 unranked...........................2021 recruiting class national rank #3 (Maason Smith, Sage Ryan)

 

This seems like a good off season topic to get us warmed up for the team reporting to fall camp in about 4 weeks.  Yes, I can sniff football season now!

Edited July 5, 2021 by houtiger

[COTiger]

I'd give him an A-  Not many coaches can claim a NC in their first three years.  He has recruited well and assembled a good staff.  Let's hope last year was an abnormality.  

[Hatchertiger]

In light of last year's results, Coach O will be judged in the court of public opinion on how he does this year. Other than him its mostly a new coaching staff.  He'll never satisfy some of his critics. Maybe if he goes 15-0 every year.

[COTiger]

People who expect him to go 15 - 0 every year aren't critics.  They're dumb shits who absolutely nothing about football.

[houtiger]

I'm going to weigh in and give O a solid B.  Obviously he gets an A+ for 2019, and I give him a C- for 2020.

In recruiting I give O an A.  His first full year as head coach, I'd give him a B, but he gets A the next three years.  He set out to improve the quality and depth of the offensive and defensive lines, and I think he has done that.  I think he is trying hard to recruit offensive tackles that are more athletic than Miles did. 

He radically modernized the offense and that showed immediate results on the field in 2019, and it shows up in the ability to attract elite QB's to LSU, which is better than Miles did.  The Miles offense was a turnoff to elite high school QB's.  So, the modernization of the offense has contributed to improved recruiting.

In picking coordinators and assistant coaches, I give O a C.  Hit and miss.  The really bad were Matt Canada and Bo Pelini.  Pelini was a major contributor to the failure of the defense last year.  Canada's offense was not so bad, but inter personally he was not a fit.  The waste of LSU money to buy out these coordinators is pathetic.  The head coach MUST be a watchdog over the resources of the athletic dept. and O needs a LOT of improvement there.  Miles brought Aranda to LSU, and he served admirably, at least O retained him for a while.  I won't go to position coaches, too much variables there.  Obviously Joe Brady was a clear BIG WIN for O.  He wanted to change, saw what he wanted, went for it, hey Natty!!!!  The statement that he did not interview Pelini, well that is pitiful for a head coach.  It's negligence.  And it cost us terribly.  Hopefully he learned a lesson, and an expensive one for LSU.

In terms of recognizing problems and QUICKLY addressing them, I give O a B.  When Canada and Pelini didn't work out, one and done.  He didn't waste any time moving on, although it cost the program a lot of money.  If he thought his staff in 2020 was not communicating effectively with the players, maybe some were too old and set in the attitudes, he cleaned a lot of house and the new staff is younger, they are energetic, and the seem like good communicators from what I have heard on youtube with Culotta and T-Bob and Hester.

In terms of willingness to change to get better, I give O an A.  He has changed a lot.  When he saw the game plan prepared by Bama for LSU by all their "analysts", he copied Saban and next season we had 6 analysts.  Damn fast, and immediately improved the program as far as I can tell.  He's not innovative, but a lot of coaches are not innovative.  But the good ones copy what works, and at least O was smart enough to do that.  He made a massive change of the offense to get better.  They say he was motivated by the loss to Bama in 2018, we had to change of offense to pull up on them.  He was right, and he made it happen. 

We said this about Miles, his players played hard for him.  I would say the same about O, it appears to me that usually his players are motivated (2020 aside) and they play hard for O.  I would give him an A for motivation (except 2020, but he did get them together for the last two games).

I boil it all together, I get a B.  Without a poor 2020, he'd have had an A-, but that season knocked him down.

[LSUDad]

Enjoy! 
 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/mark-sanchez-ed-orgeron-impression-tigers-usc-trojans/?fbclid=IwAR2Maga5PxqjKPkXfGPe_rSuS1uH8qX40O1FWDfFSZO50mnofw_Gv71H8Og

[dachsie]

I am not sure how to grade him but I think I agree with houtiger and say B.

 

Would love to hear Nootch and Fish's grade on him tho.  

[Fishhead]

B-

2017, we lost to some dude named Troy and got demolished by MSU worse than ever before in the history of the series. 

9-4...I sat through that shyte show of a bowl game in Orlando in a chilly rain.  

2018, improved slightly record wise but you could say 11-2 considering we won the TAMU game 3 or 4 times.  You knew something special was happening toward the end of the season if we could get some creative offensive play calling. 

2019, obviously magical and he gets the credit. He hired Brady and he saw something in Burrow.  He landed Chase, Marshall, Jefferson, and Clyde. He found Tracy and Moss in the portal. I'm certain he was instrumental in the relationship Coach E and Brady had, and the team bought into the "one team one heartbeat" mentality he created. 

2020... hmmm.  I'm probably nicer than nootch about this one because although everyone had to deal with covid, nobody lost what we lost after 2019. 20 players to NFL plus Aranda plus Brady. It was bound to be tough. 

But hiring Pelini  without...

A. An interview

B. The personnel to run his system

Was a large blunder. 

And his offseason antics following 2019 prove he wasn't focused on leading this program. 

Like Hatch said,  2020 will tell the tale. 

[Herb]

Reserving the right to downgrade based on outcomes of Title IX issues...

I'll give him a solid B for now, though.

The last few recruiting cycles have been great hauls and he gets A's for those. 
2019 was the best NCAA football team and season on record, so he gets an A+ there.

The 2019 talent made the Brady hire look brilliant...wake me up when the Carolina Panthers lead the NFL in passing. Was Brady the reason Burrow shined or was Burrow the reason Brady shined? I have to go with the latter and say Brady was a C+ who parlayed the destiny of Burrow and LSU into a big job offer and pay raise.
Pelini hire was an F. There is a reason we parted ways with Cregg. Scott Linehan was not a good hire, either.

I look at the 2020 season as I'd look at a student that had to repeat 8th grade because he missed too many classes due to health reasons. It's like missing time from an alien abduction to me so I won't use it in my evaluation.

 

I think Orgeron has worked at areas that needed fixing after 2017 and the program is better off as a result. However, the Title IX cloud is nothing to downplay and has the potential to set LSU back in a worst case scenario.

I cant't grade on potential realities, only the actual results we see.

I see a B right now, but that could come crashing down if there is an expulsion. 

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, Herb said:

Reserving the right to downgrade based on outcomes of Title IX issues...

I'll give him a solid B for now, though.

The last few recruiting cycles have been great hauls and he gets A's for those. 
2019 was the best NCAA football team and season on record, so he gets an A+ there.

The 2019 talent made the Brady hire look brilliant...wake me up when the Carolina Panthers lead the NFL in passing. Was Brady the reason Burrow shined or was Burrow the reason Brady shined? I have to go with the latter and say Brady was a C+ who parlayed the destiny of Burrow and LSU into a big job offer and pay raise.
Pelini hire was an F. There is a reason we parted ways with Cregg. Scott Linehan was not a good hire, either.

I look at the 2020 season as I'd look at a student that had to repeat 8th grade because he missed too many classes due to health reasons. It's like missing time from an alien abduction to me so I won't use it in my evaluation.

 

I think Orgeron has worked at areas that needed fixing after 2017 and the program is better off as a result. However, the Title IX cloud is nothing to downplay and has the potential to set LSU back in a worst case scenario.

I cant't grade on potential realities, only the actual results we see.

I see a B right now, but that could come crashing down if there is an expulsion. 

Wait,  you're comparing Brady as a college coach who most CERTAINLY 100% overhauled a stale offensive style and dialed up plays (passing and rushing) that perfectly fit the same personnel we had in 2018...

To an NFL OC in a shyte organization. 

Burrow, as absolutely great as he was in 2019, owes a lot to Brady (and DJ)

I think that's a bit harsh to Brady

[Nutriaitch]

Low C at best.  And that’s ONLY because 2019 was as special as it was. 

2016 - nothing happened to justify getting full time gig. won game Miles would have won. Lost the games Miles would have lost. 

2017 - September was a durable offense. First ever loss to a Sunbelt team. Worst loss in history of Miss St series (you’ll see this phrase repeated here a little later). Terrible Bowl performance.  Canada hire turned out to be a dud (another recurring theme)

2018 - Ok improvement. From fireable all the way up to roughly equal to the level that got the previous coach fired. Worst loss to Alabama (still not done using that phrase) in 20 years. Ensminger/Sullivan combo ALMOST equaled what had people ready to hang Les back in 2015  

2019 - AMAZING. Can not say enough good things about this season. This season was so abnormally awesome that it literally lifts an entirely fireable tenure up into C territory.  Brady/Burrow combo may never be matched again. 

2020 - HO LEE shyte! Somehow churned out a worse defense than Lou fornicating Tepper ever did here. Another loss to Miss State (dude is .500 against them, something even Curley topped).  Worst loss ever to Auburn (god damn this is like a scratched record).  Another loss to A&M. Lost to freaking MIZZOU.  Bo Pelini hire sucked absolute ass (another scratched record). 

 

O is:
1-4 against Bama
1-2 against Jimbo
2-2 against god damn Miss St. 
2-2 against Dan Mullen. 

that’s over half of our (permanent) annual conference schedule that’s he is .500 or below against. 

 

[Fishhead]

He ain't wrong.  100% factual

His recent recruiting, including transfer portal grabs, show he's back to reality and knows what we lack and where we need help.  So I'm a little higher. 

He needs to kick the absolute dogshit outta 3 teams this season. 

AU

MSU

TAMU

[dachsie]

And Bama

[Fishhead]

33 minutes ago, dachsie said:

And Bama

It's embarrassing to lose to shyte teams. He has to atone for that. 

If you held every coach to the standard "he has to beat bama", every coach would be unemployed. 

[Herb]

9 hours ago, Fishhead said:

Wait,  you're comparing Brady as a college coach who most CERTAINLY 100% overhauled a stale offensive style and dialed up plays (passing and rushing) that perfectly fit the same personnel we had in 2018...

To an NFL OC in a shyte organization. 

Same person.

Less than 1% of NCAA football players make NFL rosters. Ergo, one could argue that Brady has had better talent at Carolina than he did at LSU, overall.

What he does not have at the Panthers is a QB with the decision making ability of Burrow, but to say that Teddy Bridgewater was not NFL caliber starting material might be a stretch. He'll have Sam Darnold this year, lets see what happens.

In my opinion, Burrow is a far better QB than Darnold.

Burrow certainly benefited from Brady, but Burrow - before his injury with the Bengals - was on pace to break some NFL rookie QB records despite being drafted by the team that was the worst in the NFL the prior year.

I'm not saying Brady is a bad coach. I am saying that Brady was in the right place at the right time with LSU and was able to capitalize on that to parlay it into a great payday.

Let history judge.

[Herb]

BTW...this is a great discussion topic.

Thanks @houtiger for creating the thread. 

We need more analysis like this (and more analysts like everyone who visits this site and contributes their point of view).

[Nutriaitch]

Talent is relative. 

2019 LSU was arguably one of the most talented teams in NCAA history. 

2020 Carolina was arguably the least talented team in their division and bottom 3rd of the league. 

Bridgewater is not an NFL starter.  If he was, he would have lit it up in Sean Payton’s offense when he got the chance in 2019. He’s a very solid backup option though. 

[Nutriaitch]

10 hours ago, Fishhead said:

It's embarrassing to lose to shyte teams. He has to atone for that. 

 

if you add up the margin of defeat in every single to Mississippi State by: Arnsparger, Archer, Hallman, Dinardo, Saban, and Miles they don't equal the 2017 loss. 
and none of those 6 guys have multiple losses to them. 

[Nutriaitch]

On 7/6/2021 at 7:19 PM, houtiger said:

I give him a C- for 2020.

 

Damn, i wish you were grading my papers back when i was in school.

[houtiger]

5 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

Damn, i wish you were grading my papers back when i was in school.

The last two wins, over a top 10 Florida team and a good Ole Miss team, picked him up.  He got to .500 against an all SEC schedule, no cupcakes.  That's not a total fail.

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Herb said:

BTW...this is a great discussion topic.

Thanks @houtiger for creating the thread. 

We need more analysis like this (and more analysts like everyone who visits this site and contributes their point of view).

Thanks Herb!  I had this topic in my head since spring, I was waiting until we got closer to the season so some of our regulars showed back up. 

And it is a good off-season topic.  I don't think people could do it justice in the middle of a season, as they would be too influenced by what is going on in the heat of the moment.  It has been nice to see the response!

[Nutriaitch]

4 minutes ago, houtiger said:

The last two wins, over a top 10 Florida team and a good Ole Miss team, picked him up.  He got to .500 against an all SEC schedule, no cupcakes.  That's not a total fail.

I’ll give you the florida win. 

that Ole Miss team was OK at best. 
only team in the country that had an argument for having a worse defense than we did. 

[Fishhead]

2 hours ago, Herb said:

Same person.

Less than 1% of NCAA football players make NFL rosters. Ergo, one could argue that Brady has had better talent at Carolina than he did at LSU, overall.

 

You mean NFL teams have more talent than college teams?

Hmmm, wonder if that also means the teams they play against have more talent? Maybe even better coaching too. 

Like nootch said, it's relative. Carolina is horrible and they're in a division with the super bowl champs and a good saints team. 

[houtiger]

10 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

I’ll give you the florida win.

Outside of the 2019 season, which was the most enjoyable of my lifetime, the 2020 win over Fla. may be my most enjoyable game of LSU's in the last decade.

LSU was not supposed to win that game, on the road against a top 10 team, with an LSU team that didn't look like they had it together on defense.  We were thin in the secondary, McGlothern was forced to play a lot as an inexperienced true freshman (and he played very well IMO).  We had a true freshman QB making his first start.  But those kids went out and FOUGHT for that win.  I have not been prouder of an LSU team in a long time.  I don't get excited over beating Southeastern.  But I do get excited when a big underdog team fights like hell and pulls it out.  My only disappointment is that we needed a thrown shoe penalty to pull that game out.  But hey, that's football.  The team played hard enough to win, it was not given to them.  Then that field goal in the fog, OMG!  Ecstasy!!!

[Fishhead]

4 minutes ago, houtiger said:

  My only disappointment is that we needed a thrown shoe penalty to pull that game out.  But hey, that's football.  

I mean it certainly helped, but no guarantee we lose without that penalty. College kickers are inconsistent as hell. 

 

Except ours