2 Point Conversion with Fish and Nootch Ep 1 2021

[Fishhead]

 

[Fishhead]

Changed things up a little after the shyte show of 2020 lol. 

More changes coming, I think y'all will like em.

Enjoy!

[Herb]

Fish and Nootch...great starting podcast!

Really good overview of the team as a whole with nice introductions to new guys to keep an eye on.

Thanks very much.

[houtiger]

Excellent as always!

[houtiger]

One guy that I have my ear to the ground for is the #2 safety recruit in the nation that signed wtih LSU, Derrick Davis from Monroeville, PA.  He is a 5* recruit like Sage Ryan, but I haven't heard peep about him.  He wears #6, listed at 6', 198 lbs. on the roster.  Any news?

[Fishhead]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

One guy that I have my ear to the ground for is the #2 safety recruit in the nation that signed wtih LSU, Derrick Davis from Monroeville, PA.  He is a 5* recruit like Sage Ryan, but I haven't heard peep about him.  He wears #6, listed at 6', 198 lbs. on the roster.  Any news?

He's in the mix. Heard coach O mention him I think yesterday.  

[Fishhead]

11 hours ago, houtiger said:

One guy that I have my ear to the ground for is the #2 safety recruit in the nation that signed wtih LSU, Derrick Davis from Monroeville, PA.  He is a 5* recruit like Sage Ryan, but I haven't heard peep about him.  He wears #6, listed at 6', 198 lbs. on the roster.  Any news?

Stolen from somewhere trustworthy...

"I'm continuing to hear that Major Burns has made a big splash at safety and looks like the starter next to Jay Ward. These scrimmages are a good chance for the guys like Derrick Davis Jr., Sage Ryan, Matthew Langlois and so forth to get more experience and put themselves in a spot to help the defense this season. Word was that Davis had a big first scrimmage for the Tigers at the safety spot."

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Fishhead said:

Stolen from somewhere trustworthy...

"I'm continuing to hear that Major Burns has made a big splash at safety and looks like the starter next to Jay Ward. These scrimmages are a good chance for the guys like Derrick Davis Jr., Sage Ryan, Matthew Langlois and so forth to get more experience and put themselves in a spot to help the defense this season. Word was that Davis had a big first scrimmage for the Tigers at the safety spot."

Going into the spring, I remember we thought we were depleted at safety.  We were almost counting on Sage Ryan and Derrick Davis playing big roles this year.  Moving Jay Ward to safety helped, and Major Burns transfer helped.  I think LSU wanted Burns pretty bad when he went to Ga., so I am glad to see him back home.  Now it looks like Ryan and Davis will play this year, but more as backups, which is good for a true freshman, let them learn the game and get in the Moffitt program.  We've reloaded at safety, let's hope nobody runs free in the secondary this year!

[Fishhead]

Safety room looks great for the future. 

Ryan may see time at nickel soon

[houtiger]

Every now and then, I wonder how the game has changed, and how the profile of players at certain positions has changed.  Safety is a big one.  It used to be that at least one safety was the big strong run stuffer and the free safety might double cover a great WR or support the run.  Some of those strong safeties were upwards of 230 lbs.  But those guys probably lack the coverage skills to play today against the spread offenses with 4 or 5 receivers, no fullback, and one running back.  I doubt that we have a safety much over 200 lbs., which seems small to me comparing to history, but I guess that is what the game has evolved to.  It's mostly a passing game, and defenses are built to stop that.  The problem then becomes, what do you do when you play Alabama, with a giant talented o-line, and big fast running backs like Najee Harris and the history of big fast backs over there, like Derrick Henry also.  If you can throw, and you have a power run game, that is a nightmare.

[Fishhead]

42 minutes ago, houtiger said:

The problem then becomes, what do you do when you play Alabama, with a giant talented o-line, and big fast running backs like Najee Harris and the history of big fast backs over there, like Derrick Henry also.  If you can throw, and you have a power run game, that is a nightmare.

The answer to this question is surprisingly simple. 

You outscore them. 

See also: 46-41

[houtiger]

3 hours ago, Fishhead said:

The answer to this question is surprisingly simple. 

You outscore them. 

See also: 46-41

You're probably right there, and that is a reason Miles did not beat Bama after 2011, 9-6.  I'm not sure when Bama went to the spread, but I don't think they ran it when they scored only 6 points on us.  Saban was asked why they went to the spread, and he said they had to get better on offense.  He's been able to recruit QB's and receivers ever sense.  If there is one school that has put as many or more great receivers into the NFL the last 10 years, its probably Bama.

[Nutriaitch]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:33 PM, houtiger said:

 reason Miles did not beat Bama after 2011, 9-6. 

Chavis, John

twice he was handed a lead with 1:30 or less to go. at home. at night. 

blew it both times.

 

[houtiger]

48 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

Chavis, John

twice he was handed a lead with 1:30 or less to go. at home. at night. 

blew it both times.

There is truth in that, but it is not all of the truth.  If Miles had a more prolific offensive scheme, our defense should not have even been in that position with under two minutes.  Miles is gone because his offense sucked.  Because the offense sucked, we couldn't recruit top tier QB's.  Because of our poor offensive scheme, and Miles propensity to go conservative with a small lead in the second half, we let teams hang around late in the games.  The offense was so predictable that against Arky one year, embarrassingly their LB was pointing to the hole where the RB was doing to go, and he went there and Arky stuffed it. 

[Hatchertiger]

I can remember when Saban had a safety "concern" regarding spread / up tempo offenses. Look at him now, the king of spread. He got the memo after 2011, Miles didn't or he got it and ignored it.  Instead Miles' ridiculous philosophy was to find your oppoennts strength and attack it until he bows. 

[Herb]

Apparently, Miles had coeds on his mind when he needed to be thinking about football.

[Hatchertiger]

2 hours ago, Herb said:

Apparently, Miles had coeds on his mind when he needed to be thinking about football.

And in conclusion, thankfully and respectfully, Elvis has left the building.

[Nutriaitch]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:37 PM, houtiger said:

There is truth in that, but it is not all of the truth.  If Miles had a more prolific offensive scheme, our defense should not have even been in that position with under two minutes. 

in what position exactly?  having a lead?

please list every single time O has had any lead against Alabama in Death Valley. at any point in any game.  Let alone one with less than 2 minutes to go in the game.

 

 

edit to add:

i was at both games i mentioned above.  and i truly felt we were winning both games. right up until Chavis blew them. 

i was also at the ‘16, ‘18, and ‘20 games. 
at no point in the 4th quarter of any of those games did i think we had even a snowball’s chance in the deepest darkest pits of hell at winning them. 
of course being down by 4+ TDs tends to have that effect. 

 

hell it took 3 games combined for O to equal what that antiquated Miles offense scored in just the 2012 game alone. 

[houtiger]

3 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

hell it took 3 games combined for O to equal what that antiquated Miles offense scored in just the 2012 game alone. 

It is simply not true that you can compare a teams performance in one year, versus other years.  You can't.

2011 was the peak of Miles teams.  After that, his recruiting dropped off, but it took several years for the program to sink into mediocrity.  When O took over, I would not say the cupboard was bare, but there is no way you can say the program was well stocked with elite talent.  As Hatch said, Miles had his mind on coeds while the program was slipping, another fact we did not know about at the time.

So, it took O a few years to get his recruiting operation going, get elite talent on board, rebuild both lines, and then he could compete with Bama, or anyone.

From the ESPN recap of the 2012 game:

Quote

 

Mettenberger, who had gotten much of the blame for LSU's lackluster offense, suddenly put it all together for the Tigers in the second half. But LSU couldn't overcome the nation's top-ranked team and some dubious calls by coach Les Miles.

The Mad Hatter kept reaching into his bag of tricks -- and kept getting burned. A fake field goal was stuffed. An onside kick didn't work. And going for it on fourth down in Alabama territory didn't work out either.

"I wish I had a couple of my calls back," Miles said. "That's the way it goes."

 

Miles made his share of mistakes in that game, it was not all on Chief. 

My reply that you quoted was to FH comment that the way to beat Bama is to outscore them.  LSU did not have that ability for a while, late in the Miles era, and early in the Orgeron era.  Miles never took the necessary steps to fix the problem so he got fired.  I don't count the "O interim year", those are too strange.  Then we had the Canada year (that was not it), the Ensminger year (that was not it), the Joe Brady year (that was it), the Ensminger year (that was not it, but we played with true freshmen at QB).  But O has been proactive in changing the offense to a more modern one, and that has been good for LSU.

[Fishhead]

I got news for you. O hasn't rebuilt BOTH lines. He's rebuilt the D line, and very well. 

The OL continues to be an issue. See bama for an example of proper OL recruiting AND development. 

[Nutriaitch]

15 hours ago, houtiger said:

It is simply not true that you can compare a teams performance in one year, versus other years.  You can't.

sure i can. 

i just did. 

and we did it in ‘19 when saying that was best team ever. 

Quote

So, it took O a few years to get his recruiting operation going, get elite talent on board, rebuild both lines, and then he could compete with Bama, or anyone.

compete with Bama?!!?
lost by 38 last year (and it wasn’t as close as it sounded). 
lost by 29 in ‘18 (we never really threatened to even score). 
lost by 14 in ‘17

you call that competing?
seriously?

 

 

Quote

Miles made his share of mistakes in that game, it was not all on Chief.

would you rather:

A: have a lead with 1:34 seconds remaining in a game. at home. at night. needing one stop to win

or 

B: down by more than 4 TDs and both teams going through motions to just end the bloodbath? while scoring a whopping 17 total points across 12 quarters of football  

because right now you are bashing the guy that actually stood a chance at winning any praising the one that got raped prison style twice. 

Quote

My reply that you quoted was to FH comment that the way to beat Bama is to outscore them.  LSU did not have that ability for a while, late in the Miles era, and early in the Orgeron era.

how’d the 17 they scored against them last year hold up?

or the zero in ‘18?

just wondering  

 

Quote

 

  Miles never took the necessary steps to fix the problem so he got fired.

agreed. 

I’ve said on many occasions Miles needed to be fired.  

Quote

I don't count the "O interim year", those are too strange.  Then we had the Canada year (that was not it), the Ensminger year (that was not it), the Joe Brady year (that was it), the Ensminger year (that was not it, but we played with true freshmen at QB).  But O has been proactive in changing the offense to a more modern one, and that has been good for LSU.

so we just going to discount all the years it went to shyte? like 4 of his 5 attempts just don’t count?

wow. OK. 

no coach would ever get fired if we applied that logic to all of them. 

 

of course if we actually held O to the same standard as the guy we both agree needed to be fired, Ole Ed would be collecting unemployment right now. 

[Fishhead]

26 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

of course if we actually held O to the same standard as the guy we both agree needed to be fired, Ole Ed would be collecting unemployment right now. 

Agree with everything but this. 

Nobody's firing a coach a covid year removed from that '19 season. 

And his trajectory was up from '17-'18.

So when would he have been fired?

Also, only thing that gets him fired this season is title ix stuff if it's there. 

You have at least a couple more years to suffer through lol. 

[Nutriaitch]

9 minutes ago, Fishhead said:

Agree with everything but this. 

Nobody's firing a coach a covid year removed from that '19 season. 

And his trajectory was up from '17-'18.

So when would he have been fired?

Also, only thing that gets him fired this season is title ix stuff if it's there. 

You have at least acouple more years to suffer through lol. 

he would have never made it to ‘19 to save his hide. 

[houtiger]

6 hours ago, Fishhead said:

I got news for you. O hasn't rebuilt BOTH lines. He's rebuilt the D line, and very well. 

The OL continues to be an issue. See bama for an example of proper OL recruiting AND development. 

I don't recall a Miles team winning the award for best o-line in the nation, but O did.  O did rebuild the o-line, but he did not SUSTAIN that level.  But look, the 2020 team had a lot of problems the players talk about communication problems and lack of leadership.  At least 4 starters on the o-line last year started or played a lot in 2019 when they were the best in the land.  That is not a recruiting problem, with the exception of the center position.  I look at the o-line this year, and our starters should be better, and I think our backups are at a better talent level than in the Miles era.

Do you think our lack of performance last year was a recruiting problem?  Four players played a LOT in 2019 when they won the Joe Moore award.  And, the o-line coach last year was the same as 2019.

[Nutriaitch]

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I don't recall a Miles team winning the award for best o-line in the nation, but O did.  O did rebuild the o-line, but he did not SUSTAIN that level. 

2 people won that award. 

Joe Burrow : all of his “Heisman moments” are him avoiding pressure first, then making a play

Clyde: his spin move behind the line to turn a loss into a gain made him a first rounder. 

 

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Do you think our lack of performance last year was a recruiting problem? 

nope. it was a COACHING problem. 

39 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Four players played a LOT in 2019 when they won the Joe Moore award.  And, the o-line coach last year was the same as 2019.

the QB and RB were different. 

imagine that.