You design the contract of the new LSU head football coach

[houtiger]

Scotty has beamed you up to Baton Rouge, and your name is now Scott Woodward.  You have a proven head coach who wants to move to Baton Rouge for the opportunity to coach the Tigers.  He has years of experience as head coach and has won conference championships.

What are the major monetary terms of the contract, and any other significant terms you think should be in there?

I thought this might be a little fun while we wait to dispatch ULM.

[Nutriaitch]

i make him a minimum of top 5 paid coaches right now. 

guaranteed top 3 after a title. 

[Herb]

I'd set the annual salary to be variable and incentive based.

To start, $10 million per year with only 50% guaranteed. The remaining 50% divided by the number of games in a season + any possible playoffs. Any game you win, you get the "game check" for that week - any game you lose...sorry Charlie (or Mel, Matt, etc.).

If you don't make the playoffs, you'll only get a single post season check if you win your bowl game. If you don't become bowl eligible, it is grounds for termination with cause (at LSU's discretion).

If you win the NC, you get another $1 million bonus.

[houtiger]

I would do something like Herb.  Salary is $10 million per year, you receive 1/12th each month on the last day of the month, provided certain milestones are met.

No more than 3 losses, receive all checks, 4 losses and you forfeit December check, 5 or more losses and you forfeit Nov. check also (games after Nov. do not count against losses, i.e. SEC championship, bowl games).

If you win the SEC West, 500K bonus, if you win the SEC, 500K bonus, if you win the Natty, 2 million bonus.

The term of the contract is 4 years.  No annual increases are provided until a new contract is negotiated.  After two years, and annually after that, the athletic director and head coach will meet in February to discuss whether a new contract will be negotiated.  At no time will the duration of the contract be extended automatically, or beyond a 4 year maximum duration.

[Nutriaitch]

oh, i didn’t realize we were living in a fantasy world where a top flight coach would ever agree to something like that. 

 

 

[LSUDad]

Top 3-5 job, pay top money, after he wins the NC, you fire him. Odds are you’ll be better off.  

[houtiger]

3 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

oh, i didn’t realize we were living in a fantasy world where a top flight coach would ever agree to something like that.

Has anyone ever tried it?  Your base case is $10 mil a year.  Worst case is 8 mil in a bad year.  Best case is $13 mil if you win the natty.

What is your most reasonable salary?  $10 mil a year most years.

Only 3 times since 2000 did the Tigers lose 5 games prior to Jan. 1, and the worst you would have done was 8.2 mil those years.  Three times they would have claimed 13 mil a year, the three natty's.

You would average 10 mil a year, better if you built a consistent winning program.

I think you could get a great coach that would take that deal.

[houtiger]

2 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Top 3-5 job, pay top money, after he wins the NC, you fire him. Odds are you’ll be better off.  

That's pretty funny, but unfortunately it has a lot of truth in it.  but look at Les, after 2007 natty, he got back there with the 2011 team, which I liked better than the 2007 team (except at QB).

[Nutriaitch]

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Has anyone ever tried it? 

everyone else is offering GUARANTEED  money.  as in coach gets every single penny of the contract. no matter what.
Even if he gets fired (unless fired for cause obviously).

Only person that’s going to sign this “maybe you get it all”, “maybe you only get some of it” kind of a deal is guys that aren’t highly sought after enough to get those guaranteed deals that the upper tier of college football is paying.

So unless you figure out a way to get all of your competitors to stop guaranteeing money……

11 minutes ago, houtiger said:

I think you could get a great coach that would take that deal.

until his current school offers him $10 mil guaranteed. 

 

[houtiger]

13 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

until his current school offers him $10 mil guaranteed.

Then you have to up the offer.  Clearly there has been a nuclear arms race in football coaches salaries.  They are not paid as coaches at the top tier, they are paid like entertainers.  Either you want to play in the game, or not.

Look at LSUDad's post.  Fire him after he wins the championship.  Colleges give the coach the kitchen sink, and many of them lose focus and the program backslides, while you are paying for filet mignon. 

You need a way to

1) keep those coaches focused.  And

2) you need to be fair to the boosters paying the bill.

Today's contract do neither.  What is the definition of insanity?  Well we do it that way because that's the way we've always done it.  But over and over, we see the university, or rather the booster, saddled with absurdly poor contracts.  Stupid is as stupid does.

Edited November 17, 2021 by houtiger

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Then you have to up the offer. 

yeah, to the current market rate that's likely going to be north of $10 million.
all of it guaranteed.

PLUS incentives.

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

 

Clearly there has been a nuclear arms race in football coaches salaries.  They are not paid as coaches at the top tier, they are paid like entertainers.

do you know how much money is brought in by these teams that they coach?

It's obscene.

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Either you want to play in the game, or not.

exactly.

it's gonna cost you (likely) north of $10 mil per. All of it guaranteed.

 

that's if you want to play.  Judging by your post, you don't actually want to play.

 

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

Look at LSUDad's post.  Fire him after he wins the championship.  Colleges give the coach the kitchen sink, and many of them lose focus and the program backslides, while you are paying for filet mignon. 

You need a way to

1) keep those coaches focused.  And

2) you need to be fair to the boosters paying the bill.

Today's contract do neither.  What is the definition of insanity?  Well we do it that way because that's the way we've always done it.  But over and over, we see the university, or rather the booster, saddled with absurdly poor contracts.  Stupid is as stupid does.

 

and unless you can convince every other Power 5 school to follow suit (which you can't legally do because that's called collusion), then no-one is coming here for a maybe when they can go elsewhere and have a definite.

 

[houtiger]

Here are the 10 highest-paid college football coaches, according to USA Today.

College football’s highest-paid coaches for 2021

1. Alabama Menstrual Wave head coach Nick Saban – $9,753,221
2. LSU Tigers head coach Ed Orgeron – $9,012,917
3. Stanford Cardinal head coach David Shaw – $8,924,683
4. Clemson Tigers head coach Dabo Swinney – $8,370,775
5. Oklahoma Sooners head coach Lincoln Riley – $7,672,710
6. Florida Gayturds head coach Dan Mullen – $7,570,000
7. Texas A&M Aggies head coach Jimbo Fisher – $7,500,000
8. Georgia Bulldogs head coach Kirby Smart – $7,133,600
9. Ohio State Buckeyes head coach Ryan Day – $6,614,693
10. TCU Horned Frogs head coach Gary Patterson – $6,103,543

 

That's the list, as of 3 weeks ago.  Jimbo got a new deal since then.  But there are a LOT of coaches that would come for $10 mil, a worst case of 8.2 mil, and a best case of 13 mil, and looking at history, a 20 year average of 10 mil a year based on the past performances.  And that included Les Miles and Ed Orgeron.

I clearly know what the top programs pull in for revenue, and that is why I am not too upset with the escalation in coaches salaries.  What does Adele make?  Or Tom Cruise?  Those are not exact comparisons, but the point is they are in the entertainment business, and the rare superstars make a lot of cash.

[houtiger]

You want a guarantee, if you're Lincoln Riley, you're guaranteed to make at least half a million dollars a year LESS than the deal I'm offering, in your WORST season at LSU!!!

In an average year at LSU, you are guaranteed to make 2.5 million less at OK.

If you win the natty at LSU, you will make 5 mil more than if you stayed at OK!

That is some serious jake!

[Nutriaitch]

1 hour ago, houtiger said:

You want a guarantee, if you're Lincoln Riley, you're guaranteed to make at least half a million dollars a year LESS than the deal I'm offering, in your WORST season at LSU!!!

In an average year at LSU, you are guaranteed to make 2.5 million less at OK.

If you win the natty at LSU, you will make 5 mil more than if you stayed at OK!

That is some serious jake!

oh, so LSU is the only school that’s going to make an offer?
and OU is just going to let him walk away without countering?

i mean Michigan State just went to $9.5 mil for Mel freaking Tucker based on rumors of him being a candidate. 

and you think OKLAHOMA is going to just watch Lincoln Riley leave?

 

[houtiger]

6 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

oh, so LSU is the only school that’s going to make an offer?
and OU is just going to let him walk away without countering?

i mean Michigan State just went to $9.5 mil for Mel freaking Tucker based on rumors of him being a candidate. 

and you think OKLAHOMA is going to just watch Lincoln Riley leave?

If all those universities want to get into bidding wars, and you want your man, then you'll have to get into a bidding war and win it.  It's as simple as that.  the bidding war aspect is no different in your scenario.

The differences between our scenarios is that in yours you don't specify any duration of the contract.  I have always favored not going beyond 4 years in order to limit the buyout if you want to can a coach.  I detested Alleva's automatic extension in Les's contract if he won at least 8 games, total stupidity.  Make a living human judgment.  I also disagreed with stupid Woodward giving O a new six year deal; I would have given him the money, but a 4 year deal, and now we'd owe him for 2 years, not 4.

If you want to limit the duration, you will have to go higher on the salary to hook your coach.

[Nutriaitch]

7 hours ago, houtiger said:

If all those universities want to get into bidding wars, and you want your man, then you'll have to get into a bidding war and win it.  It's as simple as that.  the bidding war aspect is no different in your scenario.

That was my entire point.

No top their guy is going to sign an incentive based deal when the rest of the top schools are giving them guaranteed money.

7 hours ago, houtiger said:

The differences between our scenarios is that in yours you don't specify any duration of the contract.  I have always favored not going beyond 4 years in order to limit the buyout if you want to can a coach.  I detested Alleva's automatic extension in Les's contract if he won at least 8 games, total stupidity.  Make a living human judgment.  I also disagreed with stupid Woodward giving O a new six year deal; I would have given him the money, but a 4 year deal, and now we'd owe him for 2 years, not 4.

If you want to limit the duration, you will have to go higher on the salary to hook your coach.

I'm going 6 (willing to go as high as 8 if necessary) on the initial offer.

Again, because that's what the market dictates.
I don't know of any top their coaches that will sign a deal that doesn't even get through their first class' full term of eligibility (5 years).

Sure, in a perfect world, I would absolutely love for LSU to be able to hire the best guy available, pay him based on accomplishments as they happen here, and not be on the hook long term.

But the reality of it is if you're floating out a contract for 4 years max that could be as low as $32 mil (the 8 per in your scenario), you probably aren't getting anyone in your top 10.

Why? Because everyone else is offering between 6-10 years with guaranteed money close to double that amount. Heck, there's already 2 guys on our alleged list that have deals worth TRIPLE that in guaranteed money. 

In fact, in that price range, you may not finish in top 5 best paying college openings this year. 

USC will top that. TCU was above that with Patterson. Washington, Wash St are also open. Va Tech can go higher.
Looking like a very real possibility that Florida and Arizona State could come open this year too.
That's not even taking into consideration your guy's current job trying to keep him. Nor is it considering if any NFL teams might be sniffing at him.

So you can hire Skip Holtz with your deal.
I'm hiring Matt Rhule. 6-8 years. somewhere between $9 and $12 mil per.

 

[houtiger]

My deal is NOT 8 mil a year.  That's the minimum, only hit 3 times in the last 20 years.  The standard 9-3 season gets you 10 mil, win the west, 10.5 mil, win the SEC gets 11 mil, and win the natty gets you 13 mil that year.

The 8 mil a year is with 5 losses.  If a coach doesn't think he can do better than that at LSU, he does not deserve to be the head football coach.

Edited November 18, 2021 by houtiger

[Nutriaitch]

4 minutes ago, houtiger said:

My deal is NOT 8 mil a year.  That's the minimum, only hit 3 times in the last 20 years.  The standard 9-3 season gets you 10 mil, win the west, 10.5 mil, win the SEC gets 11 mil, and win the natty gets you 13 mil that year.

The 8 mil a year is with 5 losses.  If a coach doesn't think he can do better than that at LSU, he does not deserve to be the head football coach.

so if he maxes it out and wins 4 straight National Titles here his deal is still worth $40 million dollars LESS THAN Mel Tucker’s deal. 

so again, you can sign a deal worth guaranteed $80-$95 million (current going rate)

or

a deal that might could maybe one day if i do something that has never been done in 150+ year history of college football be worth a maximum of $52 million ($13 mil c 4 years)

hell, let’s say he averages 10 wins for those 4 years. Which i think is a reasonable expectation. 
That makes it a $44 million dollar deal.
that’s less money than Riley is currently guaranteed at OU.

 

 

[Herb]

6 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

$40 million dollars LESS THAN Mel Tucker’s deal

This deal for Mel Tucker is not official and news reports still have it as "in the works".

[Nutriaitch]

25 minutes ago, Herb said:

This deal for Mel Tucker is not official and news reports still have it as "in the works".

agreed, just pointing out where the market is. 

if the market dictates Tucker being in the $90+ range, who are we realistically getting at half that price?

[houtiger]

9 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

so if he maxes it out and wins 4 straight National Titles here his deal is still worth $40 million dollars LESS THAN Mel Tucker’s deal. 

so again, you can sign a deal worth guaranteed $80-$95 million (current going rate)

or

a deal that might could maybe one day if i do something that has never been done in 150+ year history of college football be worth a maximum of $52 million ($13 mil c 4 years)

hell, let’s say he averages 10 wins for those 4 years. Which i think is a reasonable expectation. 
That makes it a $44 million dollar deal.
that’s less money than Riley is currently guaranteed at OU.

Your comparison is not valid.  It is not valid because you do not take into account that LSU will redo the contract as necessary, provided the coach performs satisfactorily. 

There will be extensions and probably raises if the coaching salary continues to spiral.  But the coach should not get more than 4 years under contract in the future, because the buyout to get rid of him becomes absurd, like paying O $16 mil to sit at home.

What you are saying is a coach wants to maximize his gain if he fails.  It's a good deal if you can get it.  Is Mel Tucker worth 95 mil for ten years?  I don't know.  Maybe or maybe not. 

If a coach turns out to be hot for a couple of years then goes to seed, like Les Miles did after 2011, the long deal is good for the coach and bad for the university.  But if the coach is quality and continues as quality, like Saban, or Tom Osborn, or Paterno, or Switzer or Bob Stoops or Bobby Bowden, they would have made more under my proposed plan, and the university comes out better also, paying top dollar to top performance.

We don't like the current contract structure (I've complained about it for years), because too often colleges get stuck paying losers to not coach, having given them contract that are too long, and the coach has no penalty for becoming complacent and being a dud.  He knows they'll have to buy him out, and he can ride into retirement a rich man (like Ed).

So, if we don't like the current structure, a new structure must be offered.  You don't have to do things the same way just because that's the way they have always been done.

I don't expect Woodward to come get his contract plan over at GameDayTigers.com.  But maybe he should, or get innovative and design a contract that will get a good coach here, incents him to win, and does not give the farm away to a coach that starts losing.  I don't think that is asking too much.

[Nutriaitch]

2 hours ago, houtiger said:

Your comparison is not valid.  It is not valid because you do not take into account that LSU will redo the contract as necessary, provided the coach performs satisfactorily. 

There will be extensions and probably raises if the coaching salary continues to spiral.  But the coach should not get more than 4 years under contract in the future, because the buyout to get rid of him becomes absurd, like paying O $16 mil to sit at home.

What you are saying is a coach wants to maximize his gain if he fails.  It's a good deal if you can get it.  Is Mel Tucker worth 95 mil for ten years?  I don't know.  Maybe or maybe not. 

If a coach turns out to be hot for a couple of years then goes to seed, like Les Miles did after 2011, the long deal is good for the coach and bad for the university.  But if the coach is quality and continues as quality, like Saban, or Tom Osborn, or Paterno, or Switzer or Bob Stoops or Bobby Bowden, they would have made more under my proposed plan, and the university comes out better also, paying top dollar to top performance.

We don't like the current contract structure (I've complained about it for years), because too often colleges get stuck paying losers to not coach, having given them contract that are too long, and the coach has no penalty for becoming complacent and being a dud.  He knows they'll have to buy him out, and he can ride into retirement a rich man (like Ed).

So, if we don't like the current structure, a new structure must be offered.  You don't have to do things the same way just because that's the way they have always been done.

I don't expect Woodward to come get his contract plan over at GameDayTigers.com.  But maybe he should, or get innovative and design a contract that will get a good coach here, incents him to win, and does not give the farm away to a coach that starts losing.  I don't think that is asking too much.

the other schools don’t require the deal to be reworked. 

don’t require you to be perfect to max it out. 

they just require you to show up at the office. 

So, until you get every other school to quit offering absurd guaranteed deals, you have no choice but to play the same game. or settle for your 15th choice. 

 

Because if i’m head coach with my choice of place to work:

A. Guaranteed money north of $80 million. no matter what happens or how it happens. 

B. Might get that high. maybe. Looking at history realistically be around $50 mil - $60 mil.   Year one is a rebuild already with a roster in serious need of an overhaul, so you’re very unlikely to max out the first year. 

 

i don’t want anyone stupid enough to choose B over A. 

Which means you now have to settle for someone who ain’t getting an offer better than B. 

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

Put it to you like this. 

 

You want to drive a Ferrari?

you gonna have to pay Ferrari prices. 

You want to pay Mustang prices?

you gonna have to settle for a Mustang. 

[Fishhead]

All this is irrelevant.  Woody has put it out there already that he's willing to go 8 yrs $100 million, so $12 million/year is the deal for a championship level coach.

[houtiger]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:12 AM, Nutriaitch said:

so if he maxes it out and wins 4 straight National Titles here his deal is still worth $40 million dollars LESS THAN Mel Tucker’s deal. 

so again, you can sign a deal worth guaranteed $80-$95 million (current going rate)

or

a deal that might could maybe one day if i do something that has never been done in 150+ year history of college football be worth a maximum of $52 million ($13 mil c 4 years)

hell, let’s say he averages 10 wins for those 4 years. Which i think is a reasonable expectation. 
That makes it a $44 million dollar deal.
that’s less money than Riley is currently guaranteed at OU.

You are not looking at apples to apples.  You cannot compare a 4 year deal to a six or eight or ten year deal.  If anyone is being offered those deals, what he will do is make an informed decision about what the next chapter of the LSU deal would be.  Lincoln Riley's deal is 7.5 for six years, total 45 mil. 

Under my offer, his most likely outcome is 10 mil a year for 4 years, less 1 mil for a 8-4 season, plus 1 mil for winning the SEC championship.  That's 40 mil in 4 years.  What happens next.  YOU put a two year extension on the deal after the second year, and renew the deal but in the two out years, he makes 11 mil a year.  So now, his six year deal compared to what is likely (not guaranteed) to happen at LSU on a six year deal is 40 plus 22.

So, what he has to look at is 45 mil at OK or 62 mil at LSU, given that he thinks he's a top tier coach and can win 9 games a year at LSU.  If you have a competitive spirit and believe in yourself, and Riley has such a pedigree, you take the LSU deal, unless there is a personal reason to forego the additional 17 mil you would earn at LSU.  And there is the additional 2 mil sweetener if you manage to win 1 natty, and an additional 1 mil every time you win an SEC championship.

If you don't have a big chest, you wimp out and take the long mediocre guarantee.  If you think you have the goods, you step up to the plate, and commit to go take some scalps and optimize your paycheck.

My 10 mil a year base is designed based on the ESPN salaries noted above.  If that moves based on the market, my number would move so I always offer a significantly higher salary, with significant bonus incentives (actually outstanding), with a clawback for losing 4 or more games a year (not counting bowl games), and a shorter term with the understanding that you will be extended assuming you are performing well.  Of course if you turn out to be a dog, there won't be an extension, that is a risk you have to take in order to take advantage of the higher pay I am offering.  So, its a performance based deal.  Are you a champion, or a dog?

The bold part is the DESIGN of the contract.  The 10 mil a year base is NOT part of the design, it is just a blank in the contract that you fill in with a number that will work.