Other games of interest - 2022

[LSUDad]

 

[Herb]

2 hours ago, Big T said:

It reminds me of that show where they bid on the storage units that have been left behind. That one guy would always bid up the price of a unit he really didn't want just so the other guy would have to pay more for it. 

Which reminds me of online auctions where the person auctioning stuff off signs in with their secret account to bid the price up when others are bidding but below what his emotional attachment thinks its worth.

[houtiger]

19 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

I get it and understand (and actually agree) with your point.

but here is how reality works. Just using Jimbo as an example

If A&M says that what you did in years 1-3 is worth "X" and LSU says well, we're wiling to pay "Y" to take him from you, the A&M has no choice buit to pay "Y" at a minimum to keep him. Even if they feel he is only worth "X" and not "Y".  Because,now you have to not only value what is Jimbo worth, but what is it worth to make sure Jimbo doesn't work for your rival.

Jimbo at A&M ain't all that scary,
JImbo at LSU?  that dude can win multiple titles here.

So A&M has no choice but to overpay for mediocrity.

I understand the game theory.  I just don't like the game.

Everyone always has a choice what to pay for a coach, and how long to sign him up.  It's when you get yourself screwed up into thinking you have no choice (but you do), that you end up making mistakes.

When Bowden was leaving FSU, they could have looked for a proven head coach, and they went with their OC (Jimbo), who they had made head coach in waiting when they hired him from us.  He won them a natty, at a real fair price.

It will be interesting to see how these long term deals work out, who is happy with theirs, who is unhappy.  What is the winning percentage of schools where these deals worked out, vs. those that are unhappy after 4 or 5 years.  And do the boosters eventually rebel, and tell the AD's they are idiots and refuse to commit to a ten year deal, unless the guy walks on water occasionally.

[Nutriaitch]

7 minutes ago, houtiger said:

 

Everyone always has a choice what to pay for a coach, and how long to sign him up.  It's when you get yourself screwed up into thinking you have no choice (but you do), that you end up making mistakes.

 

sure you have a choice. 

you can absolutely do like LSU did in 80s and 90s and go cheap. 

 

[Hatchertiger]

You have to find the right guy who can leverage what is going on NOW. Not easy to do and past performance isn’t always a predictor of future results. So I guess finding a good HC is like investing in mutual funds  

[houtiger]

3 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

sure you have a choice. 

you can absolutely do like LSU did in 80s and 90s and go cheap. 

You don't have to run headlong and dive on top of and roll all over the absolute worst choice possible.

You don't have to go "Curly Hallman cheap", or Mike Archer cheap.

There are many choices, and I don't advocate picking the worst choice out there.

Let's just see how this period of insanity stabilizes.  The total story has not been told on Jimbo, he just pulled the #1 recruiting class and has nine years on his contract.  Let's see how happy Mich. St is with Mel Tucker in a few years.  Lincoln Riley reportedly got a $110 million deal, leaving behind his OU deal of $45 mil over six years.  Of course BK has a $95 mil. deal for ten years at LSU.

[LSUDad]

Report: Multiple Aggie football players suspended indefinitely

Cameron Ohnysty

October 25, 2022, 12:48 am

On Monday night, news broke that three Texas A&M players have been suspended by head coach Jimbo Fisher for reasons unknown as of now, as TexAgs owner Billy Liucci shared the news via Twitter after breaking the news through the TexAgs message boards.
 

As of right now, the suspended players are listed as freshman offensive tackle PJ Williams, freshman cornerback Denver Harris, and freshman wide receiver Chris Marshall, as the latter players listed have either started or contributed at a high level for the team in almost every game this season. a fourth player, redshirt freshman running back LJ Johnson did not show up to practice on Monday afternoon, yet his possible suspension is simply based on speculation.

This will be the second suspension for Chris Marshall and Denver Harris this season, as both sat out of the Miami game in Week 3 due to a “violation of team rules”, on the night before the game. Heading into Texas A&M’s Week 9 home matchup against 15th-ranked Ole Miss, the struggling Aggies will yet again be shorted-handed on both sides of the ball.

[LSUDad]

Auburn now has less than half of 2021 signees on roster after recent transfer portal entries

Crissy Froyd | 5 I

The outlook for Auburn is hardly a positive one in the midst of a lost season. 

There is very much the expectation that both the coaching staff and the roster will look a good bit different after this year and the signs of that are already beginning to show ahead of Week 9 action. At the point, the Tigers now have less than half of their 2021 signees on the roster with several recent transfer portal entries.

The team had 3 departures this week alone…

 

The winds of change are blowing over Jordan-Hare, and it will be interesting to see in what direction the program is headed after what will have been a forgettable 2022. The Tigers are set to face the Arkansas Razorbacks up next on Saturday at 11 a.m. CT.

 

The

Comments Section

BamaMtnMan 3 HOURS AGO

Even more pressure on today’s coaches. You can sign em. Can you keep em? Careers hinged on the whims and egos of 20-yr-old college students. Who would sign up for that? NCAA has to get the portal locked down. Not shut down. But the window(s) need to be further tightened and enforcement against tampering made a priority. Everybody’s doing it. Way too many too-short gaps between declaring and re-committing elsewhere. Deals in place before the athlete even enters. Not cool.

• This is not a situation that is limited AU. Gumps had a signing class, that was much better, where they lost about half the class. Also, most of these players were recruited by the previous staff and may or may not fit into the schemes or culture that the new staff requires.

 

 

[Nutriaitch]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:51 PM, houtiger said:

You don't have to run headlong and dive on top of and roll all over the absolute worst choice possible.

nobody thinks their getting the “worst choice” possible. 

On 10/26/2022 at 9:51 PM, houtiger said:

 

You don't have to go "Curly Hallman cheap", or Mike Archer cheap.

Curley wasn’t cheap. He was one of the hottest names at the time. 

He just sucked. 

On 10/26/2022 at 9:51 PM, houtiger said:

There are many choices, and I don't advocate picking the worst choice out there.

the more you pay, the less likely you are to get the worse choice. 

 

On 10/26/2022 at 9:51 PM, houtiger said:

Let's just see how this period of insanity stabilizes.  The total story has not been told on Jimbo, he just pulled the #1 recruiting class and has nine years on his contract.  Let's see how happy Mich. St is with Mel Tucker in a few years.  Lincoln Riley reportedly got a $110 million deal, leaving behind his OU deal of $45 mil over six years.  Of course BK has a $95 mil. deal for ten years at LSU.

again, unless the whole country gets in same page as you, this is your only option. 

going rate for a top coach is around $90-$100 mil guaranteed money.

if you don’t offer that, someone else will. 

if you offer the 5 year deal you keep mentioning (which is roughly HALF the going rate), then you’re not getting anyone even close got the top of the candidates list. 

 

[houtiger]

44 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

nobody thinks their getting the “worst choice” possible. 

Which just goes to show how stupid some of the AD's are, because clearly many of them make very bad choices.  When a coach has a good record for a few years, is it because he is a great coach, or did he have a few star players?  Many at Southern Miss said, after Curly left, that Curley was not that good a coach, but Brett Farve was a great QB.  I checked, Brett was at S. Miss all three years Curley was head coach.

 

47 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

Curley wasn’t cheap. He was one of the hottest names at the time. 

Curley was pretty cheap at 90K per year in 1991.  Texas A&M had set a new standard when they hired Jackie Sherrill at $267K per year in 1982.  Joe Dean was a cheapskate and we didn't win with his cheap coaches.

 

55 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

the more you pay, the less likely you are to get the worse choice. 

That can be true, but many times it is not true.  Look at Jimbo at A&M.  So far, not true at all.  Now, Jimbo is not the "worst" coach in college football, but is he worth 9 mil a year, for the next 9 seasons?  Time will tell, but most aggies fans right now would say he is not worth it, not over the last five years.

 

59 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

again, unless the whole country gets in same page as you, this is your only option. 

going rate for a top coach is around $90-$100 mil guaranteed money.

if you don’t offer that, someone else will. 

if you offer the 5 year deal you keep mentioning (which is roughly HALF the going rate), then you’re not getting anyone even close got the top of the candidates list. 

for a top "proven" head coach, you are right.   But there is an alternative.  You can go for a top coordinator who has worked in winning programs, say a Dabo Swinny at Clemson.  He was under the radar, became a star coach.  I don't know what he made initially as head coach, but I'm sure he was a bargain, and after he EARNED more money, they paid him more money.  That is another way to go, a reasonable way to go, if your AD is smart and can identify talent that can win.

[LSUDad]

Some might remember this one, the rest of college football thought we were crazy. Little did they know. 
 

Saban Doubles Salary by Accepting LSU Job 

L.A. TIMES ARCHIVES

DEC. 1, 1999 12 AM PT 

 

Nick Saban left bowl-bound Michigan State on Tuesday for Louisiana State, a job that will nearly double his salary and make him one of the country’s top-paid coaches.

He signed a five-year contract for about $1.2 million annually, joining a select group of millionaire coaches that includes Bobby Bowden of Florida State, Steve Spurrier of Florida and Phillip Fulmer of Tennessee.
 

Saban succeeds Gerry DiNardo at a football-mad school that just completed a 3-8 season, its second straight losing campaign. DiNardo was fired with a game left.

“I liked the challenge of this football program,” Saban said. “I think there is great tradition. I think the Southeastern Conference is a very competitive, outstanding football conference. There’s a challenge to being part of that conference that kind of intrigued me.”

Saban, a former NFL assistant, guided No. 10 Michigan State to second place in the Big Ten. The Spartans are headed to the Florida Citrus Bowl, their first Jan. 1 game since the 1989 Gator Bowl.

 

[Big T]

I think it is a bit more complicated than "good coach/bad coach". You can be a really good coach but not have enough raw talent to make things happen. Lets say Bill Snyder? You can also be a so-so or even a not very good coach and get covered up with a loaded roster that wins in spite of your shortcomings, oh like I don't know a fella named Ed that we might have heard of? 

[Nutriaitch]

6 minutes ago, houtiger said:

Which just goes to show how stupid some of the AD's are, because clearly many of them make very bad choices.  When a coach has a good record for a few years, is it because he is a great coach, or did he have a few star players?  Many at Southern Miss said, after Curly left, that Curley was not that good a coach, but Brett Farve was a great QB.  I checked, Brett was at S. Miss all three years Curley was head coach.

Brett Favre was not thought of as Brett Favre at the time. 

6 minutes ago, houtiger said:

 

Curley was pretty cheap at 90K per year in 1991.  Texas A&M had set a new standard when they hired Jackie Sherrill at $267K per year in 1982.  Joe Dean was a cheapskate and we didn't win with his cheap coaches.

A&M more than tripled the average salary when they signed Sherrill. 

Guys like Paterno, Erickson, Majors, etc were making a hair over $100K. 

so the $90 for Curley was not “cheap”. 

 

6 minutes ago, houtiger said:

That can be true, but many times it is not true.  Look at Jimbo at A&M.  So far, not true at all.  Now, Jimbo is not the "worst" coach in college football, but is he worth 9 mil a year, for the next 9 seasons?  Time will tell, but most aggies fans right now would say he is not worth it, not over the last five years.

 

6 minutes ago, houtiger said:

 

for a top "proven" head coach, you are right.   But there is an alternative.  You can go for a top coordinator who has worked in winning programs, say a Dabo Swinny at Clemson.  He was under the radar, became a star coach.  I don't know what he made initially as head coach, but I'm sure he was a bargain, and after he EARNED more money, they paid him more money.  That is another way to go, a reasonable way to go, if your AD is smart and can identify talent that can win.

the list of guys who fit this description and won anything of note is extremely small. 

in the last 20 years, all but 3 national championship winners had been head coaches else where, climbed the ladder, and were among highest paid coaches in America at time they won. 

the list of coordinators elevated to Head Coach to win

Swinney, Jimbo, and Kirby Smart. 

and really, 2 of those 3 do not fit the description if “cheap” when they were hired. 

[Nutriaitch]

7 minutes ago, Big T said:

I think it is a bit more complicated than "good coach/bad coach". You can be a really good coach but not have enough raw talent to make things happen. Lets say Bill Snyder? You can also be a so-so or even a not very good coach and get covered up with a loaded roster that wins in spite of your shortcomings, oh like I don't know a fella named Ed that we might have heard of? 

this!

nobody on the planet thinks Ed fornicating Orgeron would have done anything like 2018 & 2019 anywhere else. 

[LSUDad]

2 hours ago, Big T said:

I think it is a bit more complicated than "good coach/bad coach". You can be a really good coach but not have enough raw talent to make things happen. Lets say Bill Snyder? You can also be a so-so or even a not very good coach and get covered up with a loaded roster that wins in spite of your shortcomings, oh like I don't know a fella named Ed that we might have heard of? 

Bills there, they win, he leaves, they lose. Comes back, he wins again. His DC was a good friend of mine Phil Bennett. When Bill came back to K St. he asked Phil to return, Phil turned him down. 

[LSUDad]

2 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

this!

nobody on the planet thinks Ed fornicating Orgeron would have done anything like 2018 & 2019 anywhere else. 

Les and Ed couldn’t have won a NC anywhere but LSU! I like Kelly’s chances. 

[LSUDad]

Texas A&M football: Jimbo Fisher has 'lost control' of locker room, ex-Arkansas QB Clint Stoerner contends
 

The 2022 college football season is not going as Texas A&M football envisioned, to say the least. The Aggies are 3-4, face mounting injuries, and now have multiple star freshmen suspended as a result of a reported locker room incident that occurred during the team's Week 8 loss at South Carolina. The incident in Columbia falls on the shoulders of head coach Jimbo Fisher, according to former Arkansas quarterback Clint Stoerner, who says Fisher has "lost all control" of the Texas A&M football program.

"Anybody on the inside there at Texas A&M, Jimbo Fisher — you are either coaching it, or your are allowing it," Stoerner told Field of 12. "He is in a position where these kids are doing whatever the hell they want  whenever they want to do it. This is the damnedest thing I've ever heard. If reports are true of what was going on in the locker room (at South Carolina) before a ball game, who dang cares if you went out and got your *ss whooped by South Carolina. It's happening in a locker room before a ballgame? Jimbo Fisher has lost all control of that program. And again, it's another one of those organizations where all those five-stars in that record-setting recruiting class last cycle? It's not like those old days, Jimbo. Those boys can (transfer) in a hurry now."

Stoerner played at Arkansas in the late 1990s before entering the NFL as an undrafted free agent with the Dallas Cowboys in 2000. He later spent time in the Arena Football League and All American Football League before his pro career ended after 2010.
 

Texas A&M suspended three freshmen — cornerback Denver Harris, wide receiver Chris Marshall and offensive lineman PJ Williams — indefinitely as a result of what was reported Tuesday by Sam Khan of The Athletic as a locker-room incident in this past Saturday's 30-24 loss at South Carolina. This marks the second suspension of the 2022 season for Harris and Marshall.

All three players were top-55 players nationally from the Class of 2022. Harris was recently been named to the 247Sports Midseason Freshman All-American team. Marshall has 11 catches for 108 yards on the season. The freshman had three receptions for 40 yards in a loss earlier this month at Alabama. Texas A&M moved to 3-4 with a loss to the Gamecocks, the Aggies' third straight defeat.

The trio of suspensions were not the first occurrence of off-field drama around Texas A&M this season. Wide receiver Ainais Smith, who suffered a season-ending injury in Week 4 against Arkansas, was suspended for a portion of the summer following a DWI arrest in July. Smith was removed from the lineup of Texas A&M players to appear at SEC Media Days that week as a result of the arrest. 

[Nutriaitch]

3 hours ago, LSUDad said:

Les and Ed couldn’t have won a NC anywhere but LSU! I like Kelly’s chances. 

Les probably could have. 

Ed? no chance. 

[LSUDad]

6 minutes ago, Nutriaitch said:

Les probably could have. 

Ed? no chance. 

Probably? 

[Nutriaitch]

13 minutes ago, LSUDad said:

Probably? 

not at a school like Mizzou, no. 

but early in Les’ tenure here, his style was the way to go.  He didn’t need a once in a lifetime QB to do it.  

so Les at Georgia, Florida, Tennessee type places in ‘05-‘11 ish would have probably had a similar run to what he had here. 

 

[houtiger]

6 hours ago, Nutriaitch said:

A&M more than tripled the average salary when they signed Sherrill. 

Guys like Paterno, Erickson, Majors, etc were making a hair over $100K. 

so the $90 for Curley was not “cheap”. 

But, A&M started the arms race in '82.  Sherrill did well at A&M for a number of years, got them into the top 10 with the "Wrecking Crew" defense.  His motivation technique was was a little strange, before they played the Longhorns one year, he had a bull castrated in front of the team, I guess to show them how to approach the team from Austin.

But, a new standard had been set, and LSU did not step up to meet it.

Regarding Hallman, not all opinions of him were good.

"Soon the entire college football nation would know his name. Favre would see to that in short order.

Brett Favre let his play do the talking.

He sleighed the college football giants of the world. The Alabamas. The Auburns. The Florida States back when Florida State was Florida State. He turned the college football establishment on its head at this small school in the sticks- Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

His extraordinary play got a bad head football coach—Curley Hallman—the head coaching job at LSU."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/429246-i-love-brett-favre-i-hate-brett-favre-is-this-really-the-end

S. Miss lost to Gumps and Auburn Brett's junior year, then he came back and beat them his Sr. yr.

Joe Dean was known to be cheap, that is why Mark Emmert included himself in the interview process for Saban.  The story I have read is Emmert told Dean, "see what he wants to come to LSU and give it to him".  Our first head coach to make over 1 mil a year.

[Nutriaitch]

17 minutes ago, houtiger said:

But, A&M started the arms race in '82.  Sherrill did well at A&M for a number of years, got them into the top 10 with the "Wrecking Crew" defense.  His motivation technique was was a little strange, before they played the Longhorns one year, he had a bull castrated in front of the team, I guess to show them how to approach the team from Austin.

But, a new standard had been set, and LSU did not step up to meet it.

Regarding Hallman, not all opinions of him were good.

"Soon the entire college football nation would know his name. Favre would see to that in short order.

Brett Favre let his play do the talking.

He sleighed the college football giants of the world. The Alabamas. The Auburns. The Florida States back when Florida State was Florida State. He turned the college football establishment on its head at this small school in the sticks- Hattiesburg, Mississippi.

His extraordinary play got a bad head football coach—Curley Hallman—the head coaching job at LSU."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/429246-i-love-brett-favre-i-hate-brett-favre-is-this-really-the-end

S. Miss lost to Gumps and Auburn Brett's junior year, then he came back and beat them his Sr. yr.

Joe Dean was known to be cheap, that is why Mark Emmert included himself in the interview process for Saban.  The story I have read is Emmert told Dean, "see what he wants to come to LSU and give it to him".  Our first head coach to make over 1 mil a year.

that was written with  the knowledge that Hallman sucked and Favre broke NFL records. 

 

at the time, Hallman was given the credit. 
was the crown Jewel of that cycle. and LSU landed him. 

[houtiger]

1 hour ago, Nutriaitch said:

that was written with  the knowledge that Hallman sucked and Favre broke NFL records.

at the time, Hallman was given the credit. 
was the crown Jewel of that cycle. and LSU landed him. 

Which goes to show what a poor judge of a head coach Joe Dean actually was.  If everyone thought Hallman was so great, it shows how wrong everyone could be.  I was in Houston in an "LSU Free Zone", so I never saw any of those goings on.

Here's the bottom line.  If you can get a PROVEN head coach of championship caliber, pay him good money and you'll be happy.  But, you need to look at more than just the record.  If the coach performs at a high level, its ok to lock him into a long term deal.  It's working for Gumps and Clemson.

On the other hand, if the AD can't pick talent, or you're extending a coach just because you're afraid someone else will steal him, if he hasn't produced lately, you may be better off letting him go.  Witness Jimbo at aTm.  Mel Tucker (3-4 going into today's game with Michigan) at Michigan State, new 10 year deal.

If you REACH to talent that is not quality proven over a sufficient period, that deal can work out very bad, and expensive.  Orgeron, Malzahn come to mind.  Notre Dame paid Charlie Weis 19 mil to leave, buying out 6 years on his deal.  All of those deals were too long, extensions too generous.

 

Did

[houtiger]

I watched aTm / Ole Miss last night, to see what Jimbo has.  Some say Jimbo's offense is now behind the times and the fans want him to hire an OC.  Announcer said Jimbo runs a pro style offense, you can make it work against any defense, but it's complicated.  Maybe that's why Weigman didn't start until last night.  Weigman has an outstanding arm, and vision.  Jimbo may have his "Jamis Winston".  Jimbo will have to evaluate the whole program at the end of the year and make changes.  But, the #1 recruiting class may grow up and do a lot better next year.  I think everyone likes to see aTm suffer this year because they have rich boosters and they bought a recruiting class.  I didn't think they would be as good this year as last because they lost a lot of talent.  But they have been worse than I thought.  Weigman gives aTm a chance against LSU.  I suspect Jimbo will make some changes and they will do better next year.

Watching scores, there were some surprises.

#22 Kansas St. beat #9 Oklahoma St. 48-0

Louisville beat #10 Wake Forest 48-21

Notre Dame beat #16 Syracuse 41-24

 

[LSUDad]

Look no further than what took out Les and O, a combination of what went on, both on and off the field. 
 

aTm has a bunch of money invested, our AD was told to get Jimbo, his search consisted of one guy. Money was not an option. Make Jimbo tell you no! 
 

Fast forward, we needed a coach, names were flying out everywhere, nothing leaked by Woody and his administration. Lots of coaches got raises. Woody went out an got, in his mind, the best available. aTm, upped Jimbo’s pot, so did a number of other schools. Remember, you don’t really talk with the coach, everything goes through the Jimmy Sextons of the world. 
 

Some might remember years ago, in the 90’s, LSU was looking for a Head Coach, they had a deal in place, TCU’s Pat Sullivan, but he had a buyout. That one fell off quickly. 
 

Be thankful for Kelly, we could have done lots worse.